I think the punishment for chanting hate at a footy match should be education & rehabilitation not massive bans. I also think that catching one moron at a time and ruining their lives isn't going to stop thousands at a time chanting Munich v Hillsborough insults or WHAM fans hissing at Spurs fans for example.
I also think that we should have banned pro Palestine marches from the off like a lot of mainland Europe did. Not doing so has led to the 2 tier policing that you're seeing the Met have to adopt to prevent widespread violence. It didn't have to be like this.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
32You either believe in freedom of speech or you don't. I do. People march for all sorts of reasons. Some of which I agree with, some of which I don't. Sometimes people march in favour of things which I deeply oppose. I defend the right of those people who disagree with me to march.Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:54 am
I also think that we should have banned pro Palestine marches from the off like a lot of mainland Europe did. Not doing so has led to the 2 tier policing that you're seeing the Met have to adopt to prevent widespread violence. It didn't have to be like this.
Could you name the lots of mainland European countries which have banned marches calling for a ceasefire in Gaza?
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
33I do too up to a point but we clearly have a difference of opinion on where the line is. From memory France have, the DACH region and Hungary. It sounds like you're about to contest this!Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 13th, 2023, 12:04 pmYou either believe in freedom of speech or you don't. I do. People march for all sorts of reasons. Some of which I agree with, some of which I don't. Sometimes people march in favour of things which I deeply oppose. I defend the right of those people who disagree with me to march.Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:54 am
I also think that we should have banned pro Palestine marches from the off like a lot of mainland Europe did. Not doing so has led to the 2 tier policing that you're seeing the Met have to adopt to prevent widespread violence. It didn't have to be like this.
Could you name the lots of mainland European countries which have banned marches calling for a ceasefire in Gaza?
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
34Some marches have been banned in France. Although I note yesterday France voted in favour at the UN General Assembly for an immediate ceasefire. As did Australia, Belgium, Ireland and 150 other 'cesspits' of anti-semitism.Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 13th, 2023, 12:30 pmI do too up to a point but we clearly have a difference of opinion on where the line is. From memory France have, the DACH region and Hungary. It sounds like you're about to contest this!Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 13th, 2023, 12:04 pmYou either believe in freedom of speech or you don't. I do. People march for all sorts of reasons. Some of which I agree with, some of which I don't. Sometimes people march in favour of things which I deeply oppose. I defend the right of those people who disagree with me to march.Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:54 am
I also think that we should have banned pro Palestine marches from the off like a lot of mainland Europe did. Not doing so has led to the 2 tier policing that you're seeing the Met have to adopt to prevent widespread violence. It didn't have to be like this.
Could you name the lots of mainland European countries which have banned marches calling for a ceasefire in Gaza?
I agree entirely with your analysis that freedom of speech is curtailed by hate speech. Calling for a ceasefire when 8,000 children have been killed and when Joe Biden has finally realized that Israel is losing support because of it's 'indiscriminate bombing' is not hate speech.
I recall sections of football fans chanting 'Aberfan' at County supporters. I'm sure Cardiff and Swansea fans back in the 60's and 70's likewise remember that. On your logic all attendance at football should be banned.
It's the flaw in the common sense argument. Most people equate those who have common sense with those with whom they agree.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
35We're echoing each other on the education point - far better to sit the kid down with [say] Neil Warnock for a talking to, as Warnock was clearly very upset by ES' death, or in the case of Hillsborough sit down with victims families, racism meet the player to see the impact, etc (IF of course the offended party was happy to do so) education and reconciliation better than the nuclear button - its better to turn an enemy into an ally than make him an enemy for life.Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:54 am I think the punishment for chanting hate at a footy match should be education & rehabilitation not massive bans. I also think that catching one moron at a time and ruining their lives isn't going to stop thousands at a time chanting Munich v Hillsborough insults or WHAM fans hissing at Spurs fans for example.
I also think that we should have banned pro Palestine marches from the off like a lot of mainland Europe did. Not doing so has led to the 2 tier policing that you're seeing the Met have to adopt to prevent widespread violence. It didn't have to be like this.
On the marches I agree that we have 'selective' policing but don't agree with banning marches as free speech should be [almost] absolute and not subjective (which is the argument I'd use against the censorship hungry far left - they'll come for you at some point).
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
36I prefer Jean Jacques Rousseau's "Men are born free and are everywhere in chains".Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 12th, 2023, 6:36 pmWhat part of my condemnation of Hamas is troubling you?North London Exile wrote: December 12th, 2023, 5:37 pmYou don't speak for Jews, mate, whatever your pretensions.Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 12th, 2023, 1:39 pmNonsense.Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 12th, 2023, 1:31 pm The punishment is wildly disproportionate to the crime, especially in the current climate of two tier policing where you can freely chant anti-semitism on the streets as long as you're in an organised protest.
You can't freely chant anti-semitism on the streets. And rightly so.
Calling out Netanyahu's band of thugs is not anti -semitic. Many Jews find the behaviour of the Israeli state as repulsive as I do. People who kill children, whether they be Hamas or the Israeli Defence Forces dehumanize the world and shame us all.
Like most you conveniently leave out the raping of women and the seizing of hostages to trade for "children" who are facing charges of attempted murder.
Ireland has become a cesspit of antisemitism, it seems.
Looking forward to seeing a lot of my people at Barnet tonight, even if I'm cheering for the other side.
Children aren't born Christian or Jewish or Muslim. They are simply born. This my people, your people etc is just total bollox. Until idiots like you learn that we are all people, and if a loving God exists, that love is equally shared, we are all the poorer.
Get a life.
Your words exhibit zilch understanding of racism and how it affects its victims.
Let's have a comparison: Christy Moore once wrote a song about the 1936 Irish International Brigade, which contained the memorable lines on their enemies:
"When the Bishops blessed the blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire, as they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain."
Slow forward to 2023 and you have Sinead Cusack's love child in Dun Laoghaire blessing Hamas and trashing Israel. But this time there are no eager volunteers stepping forward to join the fight. Only Israeli conscripts in the IDF trying to clear up the mess created by politicians, and "volunteer" suicide bombers not getting a life.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
37Ten years before I saw the light of morning,North London Exile wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:48 pm
Let's have a comparison: Christy Moore once wrote a song about the 1936 Irish International Brigade, which contained the memorable lines on their enemies:
"When the Bishops blessed the blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire, as they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain."
A comradeship of heroes was laid
From every corner of the world came sailing
The fifteenth international brigade
They came to stand beside the Spanish people
To try to stem the rising fascist tide
Franco's allies were the powerful and wealthy,
Frank Ryan's men came from the other side
Even the olives were bleeding
As the battle for Madrid it thundered on
Truth and love against the force of evil
Brotherhood against the fascist clan
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaan the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Bob Hilliard was a Church of Ireland Pastor
From Killarney across the Pyrenees he came
From Derry came a brave young Christian Brother
Side by side they fough and died in Spain
Tommy Woods age seventeen died in Cordoba
With Na Fianna he learned to hold his gun
From Dublin ro the Villa del Rio
Where he fought and died beneath the Spanish sun
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Many irishmen heard the call of Franco
Joinrd Hitler and Mussolini too
Propaganda from pulpit and newspapers
Helped O'Duffy to gather up his crew
And the word came from the Church support the Nazis
The men of cloth failed again
When the Bishops blessed the Blue Shirts down in Galway
As they sailed beneath the swastika for Spain
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
This song is a tribute to Frank Ryan
Kit Conway and Dinny Coady too
Peter Daly, Charlie Regan and Hugh Bonner
Though many died I can but name a few
Danny Boyle, Blaser-Brown and Charlie Donnelly
Liam Tumlinson and Jim Straney from Short Strand
Jack Nalty, Tommy Patton and Frank Conroy
Jim Foley, Tony Fox and Dick O'Neil.
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
The song you refer to in full. As you see it is an anti-fascist anthem. And in case you're in any doubt you have just made a complete fool of yourself.
You make my point. Every country has a number of right wing nutters. Those nutters kill children. Eoin O'Duffy and his Blueshirts in Ireland. Oswald Mosely and his Blackshirts in Britain. Benjamin Netanyahu and his thugs in Israel. Hamas in Gaza. They are all the f@cking same.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
38Everyone loves a Copy and Paste. Isn't that right Stan The Terrible?Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 14th, 2023, 12:46 amTen years before I saw the light of morning,North London Exile wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:48 pm
Let's have a comparison: Christy Moore once wrote a song about the 1936 Irish International Brigade, which contained the memorable lines on their enemies:
"When the Bishops blessed the blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire, as they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain."
A comradeship of heroes was laid
From every corner of the world came sailing
The fifteenth international brigade
They came to stand beside the Spanish people
To try to stem the rising fascist tide
Franco's allies were the powerful and wealthy,
Frank Ryan's men came from the other side
Even the olives were bleeding
As the battle for Madrid it thundered on
Truth and love against the force of evil
Brotherhood against the fascist clan
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaan the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Bob Hilliard was a Church of Ireland Pastor
From Killarney across the Pyrenees he came
From Derry came a brave young Christian Brother
Side by side they fough and died in Spain
Tommy Woods age seventeen died in Cordoba
With Na Fianna he learned to hold his gun
From Dublin ro the Villa del Rio
Where he fought and died beneath the Spanish sun
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Many irishmen heard the call of Franco
Joinrd Hitler and Mussolini too
Propaganda from pulpit and newspapers
Helped O'Duffy to gather up his crew
And the word came from the Church support the Nazis
The men of cloth failed again
When the Bishops blessed the Blue Shirts down in Galway
As they sailed beneath the swastika for Spain
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
This song is a tribute to Frank Ryan
Kit Conway and Dinny Coady too
Peter Daly, Charlie Regan and Hugh Bonner
Though many died I can but name a few
Danny Boyle, Blaser-Brown and Charlie Donnelly
Liam Tumlinson and Jim Straney from Short Strand
Jack Nalty, Tommy Patton and Frank Conroy
Jim Foley, Tony Fox and Dick O'Neil.
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
The song you refer to in full. As you see it is an anti-fascist anthem. And in case you're in any doubt you have just made a complete fool of yourself.
You make my point. Every country has a number of right wing nutters. Those nutters kill children. Eoin O'Duffy and his Blueshirts in Ireland. Oswald Mosely and his Blackshirts in Britain. Benjamin Netanyahu and his thugs in Israel. Hamas in Gaza. They are all the f@cking same.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
39As you will see from the typos I had to type it out.Torquay Exile wrote: December 14th, 2023, 2:10 amEveryone loves a Copy and Paste. Isn't that right Stan The Terrible?Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 14th, 2023, 12:46 amTen years before I saw the light of morning,North London Exile wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:48 pm
Let's have a comparison: Christy Moore once wrote a song about the 1936 Irish International Brigade, which contained the memorable lines on their enemies:
"When the Bishops blessed the blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire, as they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain."
A comradeship of heroes was laid
From every corner of the world came sailing
The fifteenth international brigade
They came to stand beside the Spanish people
To try to stem the rising fascist tide
Franco's allies were the powerful and wealthy,
Frank Ryan's men came from the other side
Even the olives were bleeding
As the battle for Madrid it thundered on
Truth and love against the force of evil
Brotherhood against the fascist clan
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaan the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Bob Hilliard was a Church of Ireland Pastor
From Killarney across the Pyrenees he came
From Derry came a brave young Christian Brother
Side by side they fough and died in Spain
Tommy Woods age seventeen died in Cordoba
With Na Fianna he learned to hold his gun
From Dublin ro the Villa del Rio
Where he fought and died beneath the Spanish sun
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Many irishmen heard the call of Franco
Joinrd Hitler and Mussolini too
Propaganda from pulpit and newspapers
Helped O'Duffy to gather up his crew
And the word came from the Church support the Nazis
The men of cloth failed again
When the Bishops blessed the Blue Shirts down in Galway
As they sailed beneath the swastika for Spain
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
This song is a tribute to Frank Ryan
Kit Conway and Dinny Coady too
Peter Daly, Charlie Regan and Hugh Bonner
Though many died I can but name a few
Danny Boyle, Blaser-Brown and Charlie Donnelly
Liam Tumlinson and Jim Straney from Short Strand
Jack Nalty, Tommy Patton and Frank Conroy
Jim Foley, Tony Fox and Dick O'Neil.
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
The song you refer to in full. As you see it is an anti-fascist anthem. And in case you're in any doubt you have just made a complete fool of yourself.
You make my point. Every country has a number of right wing nutters. Those nutters kill children. Eoin O'Duffy and his Blueshirts in Ireland. Oswald Mosely and his Blackshirts in Britain. Benjamin Netanyahu and his thugs in Israel. Hamas in Gaza. They are all the f@cking same.
But it was important that I did. Important that I pointed out the names of a tiny number of the many people who gave their lives to oppose fascism. People whose country is a cesspit according to that sad little racist North London Exile.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
40In the 12th chapter of the letter to the Romans in the bible Paul said
"Dear friends, never avenge yourselves. Leave that to God, for he has said that he will repay those who deserve it. Don’t take the law into your own hands.[a] 20 Instead, feed your enemy if he is hungry. If he is thirsty give him something to drink and you will be “heaping coals of fire on his head.” In other words, he will feel ashamed of himself for what he has done to you. 21 Don’t let evil get the upper hand, but conquer evil by doing good.
It seems like Netanyahu and his buddies have only read the bit about "heaping coals of fire on his head" and taken it literally.
Jesus said "Love your enemy".
"Dear friends, never avenge yourselves. Leave that to God, for he has said that he will repay those who deserve it. Don’t take the law into your own hands.[a] 20 Instead, feed your enemy if he is hungry. If he is thirsty give him something to drink and you will be “heaping coals of fire on his head.” In other words, he will feel ashamed of himself for what he has done to you. 21 Don’t let evil get the upper hand, but conquer evil by doing good.
It seems like Netanyahu and his buddies have only read the bit about "heaping coals of fire on his head" and taken it literally.
Jesus said "Love your enemy".
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
41Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business.
Jacob Marley.
A Christmas Carol. Charles Dickens.
No matter this thread has been brought down into the gutter by squalid little racists the truth is thst regardless of faith or lack of faith, most of us want a world where no child fears the gun or the bomb or hunger. Those who wish to call entire countries cesspits, those who see only the suffering of one side in war, they are the minority.
As later in the same novel Dickens pointed out there are two great evils. Want and Ignorance. I just hope that North London Exile's ignorance is lifted. A child screaming in terror as he or she is obliterated endures the same horror whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.
Jacob Marley.
A Christmas Carol. Charles Dickens.
No matter this thread has been brought down into the gutter by squalid little racists the truth is thst regardless of faith or lack of faith, most of us want a world where no child fears the gun or the bomb or hunger. Those who wish to call entire countries cesspits, those who see only the suffering of one side in war, they are the minority.
As later in the same novel Dickens pointed out there are two great evils. Want and Ignorance. I just hope that North London Exile's ignorance is lifted. A child screaming in terror as he or she is obliterated endures the same horror whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
42"A child screaming in terror as he or she is obliterated endures the same horror whether they are Israeli or Palestinian."Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 14th, 2023, 10:38 am Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business.
Jacob Marley.
A Christmas Carol. Charles Dickens.
No matter this thread has been brought down into the gutter by squalid little racists the truth is thst regardless of faith or lack of faith, most of us want a world where no child fears the gun or the bomb or hunger. Those who wish to call entire countries cesspits, those who see only the suffering of one side in war, they are the minority.
As later in the same novel Dickens pointed out there are two great evils. Want and Ignorance. I just hope that North London Exile's ignorance is lifted. A child screaming in terror as he or she is obliterated endures the same horror whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.
Amen
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
43Unlike you, I have actually met Christy Moore. I don't need lectures from Stage Irishmen.Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 14th, 2023, 12:46 amTen years before I saw the light of morning,North London Exile wrote: December 13th, 2023, 11:48 pm
Let's have a comparison: Christy Moore once wrote a song about the 1936 Irish International Brigade, which contained the memorable lines on their enemies:
"When the Bishops blessed the blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire, as they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain."
A comradeship of heroes was laid
From every corner of the world came sailing
The fifteenth international brigade
They came to stand beside the Spanish people
To try to stem the rising fascist tide
Franco's allies were the powerful and wealthy,
Frank Ryan's men came from the other side
Even the olives were bleeding
As the battle for Madrid it thundered on
Truth and love against the force of evil
Brotherhood against the fascist clan
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaan the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Bob Hilliard was a Church of Ireland Pastor
From Killarney across the Pyrenees he came
From Derry came a brave young Christian Brother
Side by side they fough and died in Spain
Tommy Woods age seventeen died in Cordoba
With Na Fianna he learned to hold his gun
From Dublin ro the Villa del Rio
Where he fought and died beneath the Spanish sun
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
Many irishmen heard the call of Franco
Joinrd Hitler and Mussolini too
Propaganda from pulpit and newspapers
Helped O'Duffy to gather up his crew
And the word came from the Church support the Nazis
The men of cloth failed again
When the Bishops blessed the Blue Shirts down in Galway
As they sailed beneath the swastika for Spain
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
This song is a tribute to Frank Ryan
Kit Conway and Dinny Coady too
Peter Daly, Charlie Regan and Hugh Bonner
Though many died I can but name a few
Danny Boyle, Blaser-Brown and Charlie Donnelly
Liam Tumlinson and Jim Straney from Short Strand
Jack Nalty, Tommy Patton and Frank Conroy
Jim Foley, Tony Fox and Dick O'Neil.
Vive la Quiente Brigada
No Pasaran the pledge that made them fight
Adelante is the cry around the hillsides
Let us all remember them tonight
The song you refer to in full. As you see it is an anti-fascist anthem. And in case you're in any doubt you have just made a complete fool of yourself.
You make my point. Every country has a number of right wing nutters. Those nutters kill children. Eoin O'Duffy and his Blueshirts in Ireland. Oswald Mosely and his Blackshirts in Britain. Benjamin Netanyahu and his thugs in Israel. Hamas in Gaza. They are all the f@cking same.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
44I don't think anyone needs lectures from a squalid little racist like you.North London Exile wrote: February 8th, 2024, 8:11 pm
Unlike you, I have actually met Christy Moore. I don't need lectures from Stage Irishmen.
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