G Guest wrote: November 16th, 2022, 9:59 am I don't want to prolong this discussion because we are not discussing football any more. But I would like to point out one thing which is that the whole point of Welsh (and I think other Celtic languages) using mutation is to make speech flow and avoid harsh clashes of sounds. A simple local example is that we say Croseo I Gasnewydd instead of Croseo i Casnewydd thus introducing a soft G sound to follow the harsh " i ". So mutation does change pronunciation as well as the spelling of the word in question.

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 12:29 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 9:50 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 8:28 am What I don't understand is why do people think that the point of learning a language is to be fluent in speech?
When I was in school (many years ago) learning French, it was to have a basic understanding. It was the same as Maths, you weren't expected to use it frequently after school, just enough to know how you can solve a problem. It allows for further/ self education, if your line of work requires more knowledge.
I remember being told that learning French and German and more reacently Mandarin, were vital for commerce. Has that proved to be the case?

For me I was never a linguist until I reached uni then I only got interested when I started to want to chat up a few international students (yes you've guessed it most of the British ones weren't interested in me! ) - all joking aside whether for romantic purposes or otherwise it does help to be able to at least start a conversation in a foreign language.

As for commerce get your point, but certainly in my firm it helps to have a second language and they do do transfers abroad, equally a lot of investment from China/Japan/other in Wales and UK no harm in having some ability in those languages - could get people ahead in hospitality too a 2nd language helps and you won't get a job as air crew with an airline without at least a smattering of another language - it probably helps in more niche fields like the arts - actors or singers who can speak a 2nd/3rd language get more work and perhaps even more niche military intelligence actively recruit mandarin/Persian/Farsi/other speakers - lots of jobs where its advantageous if not essential.

One of the issues is that where it is essential to have more than one language in a job, it tends to be in the head office of national companies. Therefore youth educated in languages in Wales, are drawn to the big English cities where the head offices are. Likewise aircrew etc. So therefore assisting the very able to stay in Wales has to be a good thing.
A wise man in the 18th century said "A tri-linguist is a person who can speak 3 languages. A bi-linguist is a person who can speak 2 languages. A person who can only speak one language is English"

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 2:35 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 12:29 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 9:50 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 8:28 am What I don't understand is why do people think that the point of learning a language is to be fluent in speech?
When I was in school (many years ago) learning French, it was to have a basic understanding. It was the same as Maths, you weren't expected to use it frequently after school, just enough to know how you can solve a problem. It allows for further/ self education, if your line of work requires more knowledge.
I remember being told that learning French and German and more reacently Mandarin, were vital for commerce. Has that proved to be the case?

For me I was never a linguist until I reached uni then I only got interested when I started to want to chat up a few international students (yes you've guessed it most of the British ones weren't interested in me! ) - all joking aside whether for romantic purposes or otherwise it does help to be able to at least start a conversation in a foreign language.

As for commerce get your point, but certainly in my firm it helps to have a second language and they do do transfers abroad, equally a lot of investment from China/Japan/other in Wales and UK no harm in having some ability in those languages - could get people ahead in hospitality too a 2nd language helps and you won't get a job as air crew with an airline without at least a smattering of another language - it probably helps in more niche fields like the arts - actors or singers who can speak a 2nd/3rd language get more work and perhaps even more niche military intelligence actively recruit mandarin/Persian/Farsi/other speakers - lots of jobs where its advantageous if not essential.

One of the issues is that where it is essential to have more than one language in a job, it tends to be in the head office of national companies. Therefore youth educated in languages in Wales, are drawn to the big English cities where the head offices are. Likewise aircrew etc. So therefore assisting the very able to stay in Wales has to be a good thing.
A wise man in the 18th century said "A tri-linguist is a person who can speak 3 languages. A bi-linguist is a person who can speak 2 languages. A person who can only speak one language is English"

That is the issue and to an extent makes my point on the pragmatic aspect of Welsh - its doesn't help Welsh youth - the only jobs that 'need' Welsh in Wales are public sector ones (most susceptible to economic changes and not sustainable) - no major employers or investors want Welsh speakers if they want linguists they want European languages/Asian languages/[Brazilian] Portuguese, etc in fairness they mostly want cheap labour but that is another issue altogether.

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 3:00 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 2:35 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 12:29 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 9:50 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 8:28 am What I don't understand is why do people think that the point of learning a language is to be fluent in speech?
When I was in school (many years ago) learning French, it was to have a basic understanding. It was the same as Maths, you weren't expected to use it frequently after school, just enough to know how you can solve a problem. It allows for further/ self education, if your line of work requires more knowledge.
I remember being told that learning French and German and more reacently Mandarin, were vital for commerce. Has that proved to be the case?

For me I was never a linguist until I reached uni then I only got interested when I started to want to chat up a few international students (yes you've guessed it most of the British ones weren't interested in me! ) - all joking aside whether for romantic purposes or otherwise it does help to be able to at least start a conversation in a foreign language.

As for commerce get your point, but certainly in my firm it helps to have a second language and they do do transfers abroad, equally a lot of investment from China/Japan/other in Wales and UK no harm in having some ability in those languages - could get people ahead in hospitality too a 2nd language helps and you won't get a job as air crew with an airline without at least a smattering of another language - it probably helps in more niche fields like the arts - actors or singers who can speak a 2nd/3rd language get more work and perhaps even more niche military intelligence actively recruit mandarin/Persian/Farsi/other speakers - lots of jobs where its advantageous if not essential.

One of the issues is that where it is essential to have more than one language in a job, it tends to be in the head office of national companies. Therefore youth educated in languages in Wales, are drawn to the big English cities where the head offices are. Likewise aircrew etc. So therefore assisting the very able to stay in Wales has to be a good thing.
A wise man in the 18th century said "A tri-linguist is a person who can speak 3 languages. A bi-linguist is a person who can speak 2 languages. A person who can only speak one language is English"

That is the issue and to an extent makes my point on the pragmatic aspect of Welsh - its doesn't help Welsh youth - the only jobs that 'need' Welsh in Wales are public sector ones (most susceptible to economic changes and not sustainable) - no major employers or investors want Welsh speakers if they want linguists they want European languages/Asian languages/[Brazilian] Portuguese, etc in fairness they mostly want cheap labour but that is another issue altogether.

Does a Welsh workforce really require Asian or Portuguese speakers?
The largest employers in Wales are the public sector, as in the UK it was decided that financial services in London should be King.
So the need for linquists are in the blue light and care services mostly, with Polish in Newport being spoken far more than other European languages.

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 4:16 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 3:00 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 2:35 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 12:29 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: November 16th, 2022, 9:50 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: November 16th, 2022, 8:28 am What I don't understand is why do people think that the point of learning a language is to be fluent in speech?
When I was in school (many years ago) learning French, it was to have a basic understanding. It was the same as Maths, you weren't expected to use it frequently after school, just enough to know how you can solve a problem. It allows for further/ self education, if your line of work requires more knowledge.
I remember being told that learning French and German and more reacently Mandarin, were vital for commerce. Has that proved to be the case?

For me I was never a linguist until I reached uni then I only got interested when I started to want to chat up a few international students (yes you've guessed it most of the British ones weren't interested in me! ) - all joking aside whether for romantic purposes or otherwise it does help to be able to at least start a conversation in a foreign language.

As for commerce get your point, but certainly in my firm it helps to have a second language and they do do transfers abroad, equally a lot of investment from China/Japan/other in Wales and UK no harm in having some ability in those languages - could get people ahead in hospitality too a 2nd language helps and you won't get a job as air crew with an airline without at least a smattering of another language - it probably helps in more niche fields like the arts - actors or singers who can speak a 2nd/3rd language get more work and perhaps even more niche military intelligence actively recruit mandarin/Persian/Farsi/other speakers - lots of jobs where its advantageous if not essential.

One of the issues is that where it is essential to have more than one language in a job, it tends to be in the head office of national companies. Therefore youth educated in languages in Wales, are drawn to the big English cities where the head offices are. Likewise aircrew etc. So therefore assisting the very able to stay in Wales has to be a good thing.
A wise man in the 18th century said "A tri-linguist is a person who can speak 3 languages. A bi-linguist is a person who can speak 2 languages. A person who can only speak one language is English"

That is the issue and to an extent makes my point on the pragmatic aspect of Welsh - its doesn't help Welsh youth - the only jobs that 'need' Welsh in Wales are public sector ones (most susceptible to economic changes and not sustainable) - no major employers or investors want Welsh speakers if they want linguists they want European languages/Asian languages/[Brazilian] Portuguese, etc in fairness they mostly want cheap labour but that is another issue altogether.

Does a Welsh workforce really require Asian or Portuguese speakers?
The largest employers in Wales are the public sector, as in the UK it was decided that financial services in London should be King.
So the need for linquists are in the blue light and care services mostly, with Polish in Newport being spoken far more than other European languages.

Maybe/maybe not but a 21 year old living in Newport who can speak and understand *say* Mandarin is a LOT more marketable than one who can speak Welsh (presuming they can both also speak English!) - Welsh speakers worldwide number less than a million - Mandarin speakers number well over 1,000 Million - the average role in your average Welsh company (or company your average Welsh youngster will be working for) requires only English but better paid/jobs with travel or opportunity benefit greatly from a 2nd language [not Welsh]. French is good option too.

On 'as in the UK it was decided that financial services in London should be King' - I work for a 'city' firm (NOT a high flyer at all btw) we have a shiny HQ in London and a Cardiff office but I, like many of my colleagues, work mainly from home anyway.

Dafydd Iwan will be joining us at Rodney Parade and will be singing ‘Yma o Hyd’ prior to kick-off on Saturday at our fixture with Gillingham.

Newport County are delighted to be a part of this fantastic opportunity as this is the only fixture that Dafydd will be performing at prior to the World Cup when it commences on Sunday 20th November. Dafydd’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ has been remastered from its original tapes and has been mixed with the famous voices produced by the ‘red wall’. This has become the official anthem for Cymru’s appearance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

“Yma o Hyd has become a national slogan and now the song which gave meaning to it is the official anthem of the Cymru National Team for the World Cup,” explained Dafydd Iwan about the remastered version of the anthem. “It’s an impossible dream come true and the incredible sound of The Red Wall on this track is exciting and inspiring to hear, no other nation will have anything like this to inspire their team on the grandest stage of them all. So c’mon Cymru, let us tell the world that we are here.”

Kairdiff Exile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:12 pm A shame that the anti Welsh language lot on this thread will presumably be boycotting Saturday's game in light of today's announcement, but exciting news for the rest of us. Well done to those at the club who made this happen.

Dafydd Iwan will be joining us at Rodney Parade and will be singing ‘Yma o Hyd’ prior to kick-off on Saturday at our fixture with Gillingham.

Newport County are delighted to be a part of this fantastic opportunity as this is the only fixture that Dafydd will be performing at prior to the World Cup when it commences on Sunday 20th November. Dafydd’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ has been remastered from its original tapes and has been mixed with the famous voices produced by the ‘red wall’. This has become the official anthem for Cymru’s appearance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

“Yma o Hyd has become a national slogan and now the song which gave meaning to it is the official anthem of the Cymru National Team for the World Cup,” explained Dafydd Iwan about the remastered version of the anthem. “It’s an impossible dream come true and the incredible sound of The Red Wall on this track is exciting and inspiring to hear, no other nation will have anything like this to inspire their team on the grandest stage of them all. So c’mon Cymru, let us tell the world that we are here.”

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:30 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:12 pm A shame that the anti Welsh language lot on this thread will presumably be boycotting Saturday's game in light of today's announcement, but exciting news for the rest of us. Well done to those at the club who made this happen.

Dafydd Iwan will be joining us at Rodney Parade and will be singing ‘Yma o Hyd’ prior to kick-off on Saturday at our fixture with Gillingham.

Newport County are delighted to be a part of this fantastic opportunity as this is the only fixture that Dafydd will be performing at prior to the World Cup when it commences on Sunday 20th November. Dafydd’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ has been remastered from its original tapes and has been mixed with the famous voices produced by the ‘red wall’. This has become the official anthem for Cymru’s appearance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

“Yma o Hyd has become a national slogan and now the song which gave meaning to it is the official anthem of the Cymru National Team for the World Cup,” explained Dafydd Iwan about the remastered version of the anthem. “It’s an impossible dream come true and the incredible sound of The Red Wall on this track is exciting and inspiring to hear, no other nation will have anything like this to inspire their team on the grandest stage of them all. So c’mon Cymru, let us tell the world that we are here.”

Dyna da. Bydda i'n edrych ymlaen ato.

pembsexile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 7:42 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:30 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:12 pm A shame that the anti Welsh language lot on this thread will presumably be boycotting Saturday's game in light of today's announcement, but exciting news for the rest of us. Well done to those at the club who made this happen.

Dafydd Iwan will be joining us at Rodney Parade and will be singing ‘Yma o Hyd’ prior to kick-off on Saturday at our fixture with Gillingham.

Newport County are delighted to be a part of this fantastic opportunity as this is the only fixture that Dafydd will be performing at prior to the World Cup when it commences on Sunday 20th November. Dafydd’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ has been remastered from its original tapes and has been mixed with the famous voices produced by the ‘red wall’. This has become the official anthem for Cymru’s appearance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

“Yma o Hyd has become a national slogan and now the song which gave meaning to it is the official anthem of the Cymru National Team for the World Cup,” explained Dafydd Iwan about the remastered version of the anthem. “It’s an impossible dream come true and the incredible sound of The Red Wall on this track is exciting and inspiring to hear, no other nation will have anything like this to inspire their team on the grandest stage of them all. So c’mon Cymru, let us tell the world that we are here.”

Dyna da. Bydda i'n edrych ymlaen ato.

Felly y byddaf. Croesi bysedd, bydda I yno yn fuan.

Chepstow'sFine wrote: November 14th, 2022, 1:01 pm Anyone else get goose-bumps when this comes on before a game? Great choice by the club.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkBQAvAFjus

Kairdiff Exile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:12 pm A shame that the anti Welsh language lot on this thread will presumably be boycotting Saturday's game in light of today's announcement, but exciting news for the rest of us. Well done to those at the club who made this happen.

Dafydd Iwan will be joining us at Rodney Parade and will be singing ‘Yma o Hyd’ prior to kick-off on Saturday at our fixture with Gillingham.

Newport County are delighted to be a part of this fantastic opportunity as this is the only fixture that Dafydd will be performing at prior to the World Cup when it commences on Sunday 20th November. Dafydd’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ has been remastered from its original tapes and has been mixed with the famous voices produced by the ‘red wall’. This has become the official anthem for Cymru’s appearance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

“Yma o Hyd has become a national slogan and now the song which gave meaning to it is the official anthem of the Cymru National Team for the World Cup,” explained Dafydd Iwan about the remastered version of the anthem. “It’s an impossible dream come true and the incredible sound of The Red Wall on this track is exciting and inspiring to hear, no other nation will have anything like this to inspire their team on the grandest stage of them all. So c’mon Cymru, let us tell the world that we are here.”

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 16th, 2022, 7:58 pm

pembsexile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 7:42 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:30 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:12 pm A shame that the anti Welsh language lot on this thread will presumably be boycotting Saturday's game in light of today's announcement, but exciting news for the rest of us. Well done to those at the club who made this happen.

Dafydd Iwan will be joining us at Rodney Parade and will be singing ‘Yma o Hyd’ prior to kick-off on Saturday at our fixture with Gillingham.

Newport County are delighted to be a part of this fantastic opportunity as this is the only fixture that Dafydd will be performing at prior to the World Cup when it commences on Sunday 20th November. Dafydd’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ has been remastered from its original tapes and has been mixed with the famous voices produced by the ‘red wall’. This has become the official anthem for Cymru’s appearance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

“Yma o Hyd has become a national slogan and now the song which gave meaning to it is the official anthem of the Cymru National Team for the World Cup,” explained Dafydd Iwan about the remastered version of the anthem. “It’s an impossible dream come true and the incredible sound of The Red Wall on this track is exciting and inspiring to hear, no other nation will have anything like this to inspire their team on the grandest stage of them all. So c’mon Cymru, let us tell the world that we are here.”

Dyna da. Bydda i'n edrych ymlaen ato.

Felly y byddaf. Croesi bysedd, bydda I yno yn fuan.

.
Gobeithio mae llais canu da gyda ti. Mae fy un yn ofnadwy.
Hopefully you have a good singing voice. Mine is awful.

pembsexile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 9:25 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 16th, 2022, 7:58 pm

pembsexile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 7:42 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:30 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:12 pm A shame that the anti Welsh language lot on this thread will presumably be boycotting Saturday's game in light of today's announcement, but exciting news for the rest of us. Well done to those at the club who made this happen.

Dafydd Iwan will be joining us at Rodney Parade and will be singing ‘Yma o Hyd’ prior to kick-off on Saturday at our fixture with Gillingham.

Newport County are delighted to be a part of this fantastic opportunity as this is the only fixture that Dafydd will be performing at prior to the World Cup when it commences on Sunday 20th November. Dafydd’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ has been remastered from its original tapes and has been mixed with the famous voices produced by the ‘red wall’. This has become the official anthem for Cymru’s appearance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

“Yma o Hyd has become a national slogan and now the song which gave meaning to it is the official anthem of the Cymru National Team for the World Cup,” explained Dafydd Iwan about the remastered version of the anthem. “It’s an impossible dream come true and the incredible sound of The Red Wall on this track is exciting and inspiring to hear, no other nation will have anything like this to inspire their team on the grandest stage of them all. So c’mon Cymru, let us tell the world that we are here.”

Dyna da. Bydda i'n edrych ymlaen ato.

Felly y byddaf. Croesi bysedd, bydda I yno yn fuan.

.
Gobeithio mae llais canu da gyda ti. Mae fy un yn ofnadwy.
Hopefully you have a good singing voice. Mine is awful.

If I do manage to get there and sing, it’s only the chorus for me Mark. Only time I normally sing is after a few beers and then karaoke. My singing voice is garbage.