faerun exile wrote: November 14th, 2022, 9:14 pm Regardless of what is it about or what it represents I am not a fan when played at Newport games. We have no tradition association with it, not to say that should stop it becoming tradition, but just seems to be jumping on the bandwagon. We have Run Lads Shoot Lads as a Newport song, play that instead. And the least said about Hi Ho Silver the better.

That is what I should have posted in the first place! very measured and totally agree!

UPTHEPORT wrote: November 15th, 2022, 4:08 am My granddaughter has just started at Welsh nursery I'm very proud.

Two of my colleagues are flaunt Welsh speakers both from the Newport area having been educated in Welsh language schools

I think it's fantastic and I'm going to try a learn myself to hopefully help my grandchildren

Da iawn UTP . Pob lwc Tadcu.
It's for that very same reason that I started learning myself. I suspect no matter how hard you try to learn you will be rapidly overtaken by your grandchildrens ability to absorb it. One of things that surprised me was my grandaughters becoming as fluent in Welsh between the ages of 3 and 7 as in English, despite English only being spoken in the home. Clear evidence to me that starting from scratch Welsh is an easier language to learn than the hybrid English, especially if you are not so hampered by having to convert your English language knowledge into Welsh, as adults are.

Personally it's a no from me, for playing it before our home games, as much as I like it and hearing the Red Wall singing it.
It is a good rebel rousing song and indeed taking the lyrics "after everything we are still hear" can be well applied to Newport County.

I think county are behind the curve again on this one. Trying to jump on the success of the national football side. (Red Wall).

The song was written by Dafydd Iwan back in the early 80's and is thus about 40 years old.
The Scarletts/Llanelli have been playing for quite a few years at Parc Y Scarlets.
It is also written above the tunnel at Parc Y Scarlets.

So for these reasons it's a no from me.

We should looking for our own identity and be more original. (I must admit I don't have a tune in mind).

Play it once in a while, maybe before a big game is fine by me.

Fu Ming wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:32 am Personally it's a no from me, for playing it before our home games, as much as I like it and hearing the Red Wall singing it.
It is a good rebel rousing song and indeed taking the lyrics "after everything we are still hear" can be well applied to Newport County.

I think county are behind the curve again on this one. Trying to jump on the success of the national football side. (Red Wall).

The song was written by Dafydd Iwan back in the early 80's and is thus about 40 years old.
The Scarletts/Llanelli have been playing for quite a few years at Parc Y Scarlets.
It is also written above the tunnel at Parc Y Scarlets.

So for these reasons it's a no from me.

We should looking for our own identity and be more original. (I must admit I don't have a tune in mind).

Play it once in a while, maybe before a big game is fine by me.

I'm in broad agreement with this post. The key word being 'personally' . Everyone probably has their own personal preferences with music and when and where it is most appropriate to play it. I'm a self confessed 'miserable old git' , and can understanding some posters disagreeing/moaning about it's playing before our games, and preferring an alternative. I can also understand those that feel it's message is most appropriate given the history of our club. Personal opinions.
But what I find most disappointing from some posters is their apparent use of this thread to vent their resentment and spite towards the Welsh language. I find that very sad indeed.

Jonesy3 wrote: November 14th, 2022, 5:08 pm I think it's the perfect song for County.
'In spite of everyone and everything, we are still here.'

Don't think you need to understand welsh to get the song but those words are powerful and capture some of the adversity County have had

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:42 am

Fu Ming wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:32 am Personally it's a no from me, for playing it before our home games, as much as I like it and hearing the Red Wall singing it.
It is a good rebel rousing song and indeed taking the lyrics "after everything we are still hear" can be well applied to Newport County.

I think county are behind the curve again on this one. Trying to jump on the success of the national football side. (Red Wall).

The song was written by Dafydd Iwan back in the early 80's and is thus about 40 years old.
The Scarletts/Llanelli have been playing for quite a few years at Parc Y Scarlets.
It is also written above the tunnel at Parc Y Scarlets.

So for these reasons it's a no from me.

We should looking for our own identity and be more original. (I must admit I don't have a tune in mind).

Play it once in a while, maybe before a big game is fine by me.

I'm in broad agreement with this post. The key word being 'personally' . Everyone probably has their own personal preferences with music and when and where it is most appropriate to play it. I'm a self confessed 'miserable old git' , and can understanding some posters disagreeing/moaning about it's playing before our games, and preferring an alternative. I can also understand those that feel it's message is most appropriate given the history of our club. Personal opinions.
But what I find most disappointing from some posters is their apparent use of this thread to vent their resentment and spite towards the Welsh language. I find that very sad indeed.

I see no 'resentment and spite towards the Welsh language'* where was that? (bit hyperbolic no?) some people - yes me in this case - have grave reservations about the way in which the Welsh language is pushed, romanticised and massively funded in a time of great economic need when only [despite said push and funding for at least past 25 years +] 30% of people in Wales speak & understand it – in these parts our ‘local dialect’ is a rich and varied ‘Newpaaaart’ version of English intermingled with a no less rich countrified and ever so slightly posh ‘Monmouthshire’ version of English with a bit of old coal/steel town valleys English thrown in – no less Welsh and no less culturally or historically rich and important than the minority language that is Welsh…we have a welcoming and diverse country where those 30% who speak & understand Welsh have my full support and props to them (no resentment or spite) and the 70% of those us who don’t speak or understand Welsh are still very much part of this great land (we may disagree on the direction politically and UK union wise though!) regardless of our inability to speak Welsh.

All that said I did [also] say that as most others have said it’s a ‘no from me’ on grounds that its just not a ‘County song and smacks of bandwagonism – almost embarrassing.

*There does seem however to be a lot of 'resentment and spite towards the English language' in certain Welsh communities though albeit I agree that incomers/second home owners pushing house prices up is a massive issue in some coastal/country areas.

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:16 am

UPTHEPORT wrote: November 15th, 2022, 4:08 am My granddaughter has just started at Welsh nursery I'm very proud.

Two of my colleagues are flaunt Welsh speakers both from the Newport area having been educated in Welsh language schools

I think it's fantastic and I'm going to try a learn myself to hopefully help my grandchildren

Da iawn UTP . Pob lwc Tadcu.
It's for that very same reason that I started learning myself. I suspect no matter how hard you try to learn you will be rapidly overtaken by your grandchildrens ability to absorb it. One of things that surprised me was my grandaughters becoming as fluent in Welsh between the ages of 3 and 7 as in English, despite English only being spoken in the home. Clear evidence to me that starting from scratch Welsh is an easier language to learn than the hybrid English, especially if you are not so hampered by having to convert your English language knowledge into Welsh, as adults are.

Good post OC. Completely agree with the fact that our kids and grandkids are being taught more Welsh in schools. I didn’t have any at all growing up in Newport. Zilch. Lots of Latin and French but no Welsh. Absolutely crazy.

Not so sure though about it being an easier language to learn. Maybe, yes for kids but not for adults. (Personal experience there). Someone on here (think it may have been UTP) said they were trying to learn by using an App. I tried that but gave up as I just couldn’t get past one particular lesson. The App didn’t teach it, it just spoke the words and then asked questions. I failed miserably. My suggestion would be to learn by speaking with a Welsh speaker. Much quicker I reckon. Just my opinion mind.

pembsexile wrote: November 15th, 2022, 12:13 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:16 am

UPTHEPORT wrote: November 15th, 2022, 4:08 am My granddaughter has just started at Welsh nursery I'm very proud.

Two of my colleagues are flaunt Welsh speakers both from the Newport area having been educated in Welsh language schools

I think it's fantastic and I'm going to try a learn myself to hopefully help my grandchildren

Da iawn UTP . Pob lwc Tadcu.
It's for that very same reason that I started learning myself. I suspect no matter how hard you try to learn you will be rapidly overtaken by your grandchildrens ability to absorb it. One of things that surprised me was my grandaughters becoming as fluent in Welsh between the ages of 3 and 7 as in English, despite English only being spoken in the home. Clear evidence to me that starting from scratch Welsh is an easier language to learn than the hybrid English, especially if you are not so hampered by having to convert your English language knowledge into Welsh, as adults are.

Good post OC. Completely agree with the fact that our kids and grandkids are being taught more Welsh in schools. I didn’t have any at all growing up in Newport. Zilch. Lots of Latin and French but no Welsh. Absolutely crazy.

Not so sure though about it being an easier language to learn. Maybe, yes for kids but not for adults. (Personal experience there). Someone on here (think it may have been UTP) said they were trying to learn by using an App. I tried that but gave up as I just couldn’t get past one particular lesson. The App didn’t teach it, it just spoke the words and then asked questions. I failed miserably. My suggestion would be to learn by speaking with a Welsh speaker. Much quicker I reckon. Just my opinion mind.

I agree and think with *any* 2nd language (parking the Welsh debate for a moment) the basics need to be learnt but to develop as a speaker better to immerse oneself - being dare I say almost forced by circumstance or company to speak it actually helps it can be uncomfortable and bewildering at times but really does help - when I visit my in laws I make a very ham fisted attempt to speak [their 1st] my 2nd language which I think they appreciate and helps me keep it up albeit sometimes we revert to a mix of the two.

CathedralCounty wrote: November 15th, 2022, 11:32 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:42 am

Fu Ming wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:32 am Personally it's a no from me, for playing it before our home games, as much as I like it and hearing the Red Wall singing it.
It is a good rebel rousing song and indeed taking the lyrics "after everything we are still hear" can be well applied to Newport County.

I think county are behind the curve again on this one. Trying to jump on the success of the national football side. (Red Wall).

The song was written by Dafydd Iwan back in the early 80's and is thus about 40 years old.
The Scarletts/Llanelli have been playing for quite a few years at Parc Y Scarlets.
It is also written above the tunnel at Parc Y Scarlets.

So for these reasons it's a no from me.

We should looking for our own identity and be more original. (I must admit I don't have a tune in mind).

Play it once in a while, maybe before a big game is fine by me.

I'm in broad agreement with this post. The key word being 'personally' . Everyone probably has their own personal preferences with music and when and where it is most appropriate to play it. I'm a self confessed 'miserable old git' , and can understanding some posters disagreeing/moaning about it's playing before our games, and preferring an alternative. I can also understand those that feel it's message is most appropriate given the history of our club. Personal opinions.
But what I find most disappointing from some posters is their apparent use of this thread to vent their resentment and spite towards the Welsh language. I find that very sad indeed.

I see no 'resentment and spite towards the Welsh language'* where was that? (bit hyperbolic no?) some people - yes me in this case - have grave reservations about the way in which the Welsh language is pushed, romanticised and massively funded in a time of great economic need when only [despite said push and funding for at least past 25 years +] 30% of people in Wales speak & understand it – in these parts our ‘local dialect’ is a rich and varied ‘Newpaaaart’ version of English intermingled with a no less rich countrified and ever so slightly posh ‘Monmouthshire’ version of English with a bit of old coal/steel town valleys English thrown in – no less Welsh and no less culturally or historically rich and important than the minority language that is Welsh…we have a welcoming and diverse country where those 30% who speak & understand Welsh have my full support and props to them (no resentment or spite) and the 70% of those us who don’t speak or understand Welsh are still very much part of this great land (we may disagree on the direction politically and UK union wise though!) regardless of our inability to speak Welsh.

All that said I did [also] say that as most others have said it’s a ‘no from me’ on grounds that its just not a ‘County song and smacks of bandwagonism – almost embarrassing.

*There does seem however to be a lot of 'resentment and spite towards the English language' in certain Welsh communities though albeit I agree that incomers/second home owners pushing house prices up is a massive issue in some coastal/country areas.

Interesting that you chose to respond to my comment about resentment and spite. Hyperbolic on my behalf. Quite possibly, but nevertheless I do interpret your posts as someone who is bitter and twisted on the subject.

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 12:30 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: November 15th, 2022, 11:32 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 10:42 am

Fu Ming wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:32 am Personally it's a no from me, for playing it before our home games, as much as I like it and hearing the Red Wall singing it.
It is a good rebel rousing song and indeed taking the lyrics "after everything we are still hear" can be well applied to Newport County.

I think county are behind the curve again on this one. Trying to jump on the success of the national football side. (Red Wall).

The song was written by Dafydd Iwan back in the early 80's and is thus about 40 years old.
The Scarletts/Llanelli have been playing for quite a few years at Parc Y Scarlets.
It is also written above the tunnel at Parc Y Scarlets.

So for these reasons it's a no from me.

We should looking for our own identity and be more original. (I must admit I don't have a tune in mind).

Play it once in a while, maybe before a big game is fine by me.

I'm in broad agreement with this post. The key word being 'personally' . Everyone probably has their own personal preferences with music and when and where it is most appropriate to play it. I'm a self confessed 'miserable old git' , and can understanding some posters disagreeing/moaning about it's playing before our games, and preferring an alternative. I can also understand those that feel it's message is most appropriate given the history of our club. Personal opinions.
But what I find most disappointing from some posters is their apparent use of this thread to vent their resentment and spite towards the Welsh language. I find that very sad indeed.

I see no 'resentment and spite towards the Welsh language'* where was that? (bit hyperbolic no?) some people - yes me in this case - have grave reservations about the way in which the Welsh language is pushed, romanticised and massively funded in a time of great economic need when only [despite said push and funding for at least past 25 years +] 30% of people in Wales speak & understand it – in these parts our ‘local dialect’ is a rich and varied ‘Newpaaaart’ version of English intermingled with a no less rich countrified and ever so slightly posh ‘Monmouthshire’ version of English with a bit of old coal/steel town valleys English thrown in – no less Welsh and no less culturally or historically rich and important than the minority language that is Welsh…we have a welcoming and diverse country where those 30% who speak & understand Welsh have my full support and props to them (no resentment or spite) and the 70% of those us who don’t speak or understand Welsh are still very much part of this great land (we may disagree on the direction politically and UK union wise though!) regardless of our inability to speak Welsh.

All that said I did [also] say that as most others have said it’s a ‘no from me’ on grounds that its just not a ‘County song and smacks of bandwagonism – almost embarrassing.

*There does seem however to be a lot of 'resentment and spite towards the English language' in certain Welsh communities though albeit I agree that incomers/second home owners pushing house prices up is a massive issue in some coastal/country areas.

Interesting that you chose to respond to my comment about resentment and spite. Hyperbolic on my behalf. Quite possibly, but nevertheless I do interpret your posts as someone who is bitter and twisted on the subject.

That’s quite a leap and a shame - very emotive language being used as well, I hope from my past posts that while I am and can be a bit controversial at times (sometimes knowingly often not until after the fact) I’d like to think I’m a reasonable person – anyhow I can assure you no bitterness from me on it - just pragmatism albeit I get, as I have acknowledged, why people are so emotional about this subject – to repeat myself I think I should have just said… ‘not a county song, no connection with it we’re not a Welsh speaking area so stick with the songs we have!’…But whether by accident or design I often end up sticking my neck out on some issues - life would be boring otherwise!

pembsexile wrote: November 15th, 2022, 12:13 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:16 am

UPTHEPORT wrote: November 15th, 2022, 4:08 am My granddaughter has just started at Welsh nursery I'm very proud.

Two of my colleagues are flaunt Welsh speakers both from the Newport area having been educated in Welsh language schools

I think it's fantastic and I'm going to try a learn myself to hopefully help my grandchildren

Da iawn UTP . Pob lwc Tadcu.
It's for that very same reason that I started learning myself. I suspect no matter how hard you try to learn you will be rapidly overtaken by your grandchildrens ability to absorb it. One of things that surprised me was my grandaughters becoming as fluent in Welsh between the ages of 3 and 7 as in English, despite English only being spoken in the home. Clear evidence to me that starting from scratch Welsh is an easier language to learn than the hybrid English, especially if you are not so hampered by having to convert your English language knowledge into Welsh, as adults are.

Good post OC. Completely agree with the fact that our kids and grandkids are being taught more Welsh in schools. I didn’t have any at all growing up in Newport. Zilch. Lots of Latin and French but no Welsh. Absolutely crazy.

Not so sure though about it being an easier language to learn. Maybe, yes for kids but not for adults. (Personal experience there). Someone on here (think it may have been UTP) said they were trying to learn by using an App. I tried that but gave up as I just couldn’t get past one particular lesson. The App didn’t teach it, it just spoke the words and then asked questions. I failed miserably. My suggestion would be to learn by speaking with a Welsh speaker. Much quicker I reckon. Just my opinion mind.

Shwmae Mike,
I had the same experience as yourself growing up in Newport at roughly the same time. My only experience of the language was being taught the Welsh Anthem phonetically by one particular primary school teacher who did so on his own initiative. Don't believe it was part of the curriculum.
It may seem a strange thing to say that Welsh is easier to learn than English, and would agree that I was only suggesting that being the case for children, especially from a very young age before they face the many barriers that communicating in another language bring. My argument being that the Welsh language is far purer than the Brythonic/Latin/Anglo Saxon/Nordic/Norman French to name but the main ones than constitute the modern hybrid that is the English language. It therefore has a much smaller vocabulary than English, and is definitely far more phonetic in it's pronouciations, even given it's gogledd/ scouse variations.
My experience tells me that individuals have their own preferred learning methods for all learning and not just languages. I do agree with you about learning with a Welsh speaker being the best method though. If nothing else you will learn the everyday practical use rather than the grammatical correct classroom/online learning which I find can actually hamper/slow your learning. Afterall how many of us speak tidy English like what I do, in everyday situations. Failing having a Welsh speaker at your command I personally found that a face to face class with fellow learners at a similar level better than online learning as it gives you far more opportunity to ask questions/seek clarification than any online learning. Unfortunately they came to a grinding halt when the pandemic hit, and have been very slow in taking off again.
I'll shut up now as I feel I'm going off at a tangent from the original Topic heading.

pembsexile wrote: November 15th, 2022, 12:13 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 15th, 2022, 9:16 am

UPTHEPORT wrote: November 15th, 2022, 4:08 am My granddaughter has just started at Welsh nursery I'm very proud.

Two of my colleagues are flaunt Welsh speakers both from the Newport area having been educated in Welsh language schools

I think it's fantastic and I'm going to try a learn myself to hopefully help my grandchildren

Da iawn UTP . Pob lwc Tadcu.
It's for that very same reason that I started learning myself. I suspect no matter how hard you try to learn you will be rapidly overtaken by your grandchildrens ability to absorb it. One of things that surprised me was my grandaughters becoming as fluent in Welsh between the ages of 3 and 7 as in English, despite English only being spoken in the home. Clear evidence to me that starting from scratch Welsh is an easier language to learn than the hybrid English, especially if you are not so hampered by having to convert your English language knowledge into Welsh, as adults are.

Good post OC. Completely agree with the fact that our kids and grandkids are being taught more Welsh in schools. I didn’t have any at all growing up in Newport. Zilch. Lots of Latin and French but no Welsh. Absolutely crazy.

Not so sure though about it being an easier language to learn. Maybe, yes for kids but not for adults. (Personal experience there). Someone on here (think it may have been UTP) said they were trying to learn by using an App. I tried that but gave up as I just couldn’t get past one particular lesson. The App didn’t teach it, it just spoke the words and then asked questions. I failed miserably. My suggestion would be to learn by speaking with a Welsh speaker. Much quicker I reckon. Just my opinion mind.

All very good points. I managed a term learning Welsh at City Lit in London a decade or so ago (awful teacher) but less able to travel now. I've been going to Welsh-speaking Carmarthenshire since the 1950s - plenty of resentments but not over language as is sadly the case in more hardline Bangor, Caernarfon and Lleyn. Newport has always been a special case as my father told me. My good mate in Cardiff (brought up in Wrexham) could never stand Dafydd Iwan.

I had a fascinating exchange with a woman from Oregon only yesterday on a Facegroup (Walter Presents), when in the course of praising non American foreign television drama series, she classed Welsh programmes as separate from the UK series. This was very revealing as to the marketing success of Welsh language content on a global scale. When Wales/Cymru play USA next week it could be even more significant than the England match in the wider scheme of things.

Just one more point: being bi-lingual will enable Welsh young people to steal a march in confidence on their English counterparts.

Stealing a bi-lingual march is only part of it though. In order to make it beneficial to Welsh youth there has to be incentive to stay. Companies require a few Welsh speakers. The bonus of having at least one qualification in the bag to add to those subjects that just clicked. University course funding with the likelyhood of graduates eventually coming back to Wales to work once the big city lights have faded. All of these things make it advantageous to come from Wales, whereas previously it was a hindrance.

I thought it was sung really well at Leicester, and as a language is starting to turn the corner in our part of the world. And why not sing it? Why do we have to always recycle football songs from England? It's a good thing to point out that Newport is in Wales, as for so long we have have had a bit of an identity crisis East of the Usk.

I've never been to a Jacks or Cardiff away game but I wonder if they play any similar Welsh songs out of interest? Last time I went to the Racecourse (for our most recent cup game) they didn't. Personally I love it!

What I don’t get is that all kids in Wales start learning Welsh from the moment they enter primary school and up to year 11 I think. So over 10 years. Why aren’t kids therefore fluent in it by year 11? Because they are not. Either do it properly so that kids are fluent or not at all in my view.