Not on this occasion Mike. I would be lying if I said I don't get a warm glow every time the England football team get beaten. Brexit, the brain child of right wing zealots, causes real misery to people who are least able to cope.
Well I agree with you on the England football team issue Brendan. Also partially agree with the right wing zealot idea. However, I did think Brexit could be a good thing. That said, it has been totally mismanaged by the zealots. Apparently Truss was even a remainer some time ago. The way they managed the tax cuts for the hyper rich and dressed it up as a catalyst for growth was disgusting. Even had a multi millionaire (can’t remember his name) on tv the other day saying it was not needed and the money should go elsewhere. I am glad the temporary Chancellor has cancelled it.Stan A. Einstein wrote: October 17th, 2022, 8:51 amNot on this occasion Mike. I would be lying if I said I don't get a warm glow every time the England football team get beaten. Brexit, the brain child of right wing zealots, causes real misery to people who are least able to cope.
Stan A. Einstein wrote: October 17th, 2022, 2:38 pm Hi Mike,
I'm afraid I totally disagree that Brexit can be a good thing. What is gained by removing yourself from a free trade agreement with your closest neighbours of half a billion people? What freedom would you lose if the UK rejoined the EU?
It suits the very rich if you deregulate the UK economy. Red tape includes such things as not sending children up chimneys.
Sorry but for me the idea that Brexit can work if only the right people ran it is akin to the snake handling religions of the sputhern US States. If someone gets bitten it's not because it's a stupid idea to handle venomous reptiles, rather it's because their faith was not strong enough.
Incidently as an aside. The snake handlers take their inspiration from St Paul who was bitten by a snake on Malta but suffered no ill effects. Some people choose to believe this was because of Paul's strong faith. I myself put it down more to the fact that there are no venomous snakes in Malta.
I agree in part.CathedralCounty wrote: October 17th, 2022, 3:35 pmStan A. Einstein wrote: October 17th, 2022, 2:38 pm Hi Mike,
I'm afraid I totally disagree that Brexit can be a good thing. What is gained by removing yourself from a free trade agreement with your closest neighbours of half a billion people? What freedom would you lose if the UK rejoined the EU?
It suits the very rich if you deregulate the UK economy. Red tape includes such things as not sending children up chimneys.
Sorry but for me the idea that Brexit can work if only the right people ran it is akin to the snake handling religions of the sputhern US States. If someone gets bitten it's not because it's a stupid idea to handle venomous reptiles, rather it's because their faith was not strong enough.
Incidently as an aside. The snake handlers take their inspiration from St Paul who was bitten by a snake on Malta but suffered no ill effects. Some people choose to believe this was because of Paul's strong faith. I myself put it down more to the fact that there are no venomous snakes in Malta.
On the other hand the EU is largely a technocracy sucking billions into it and employing 1000's of mandarins many in 'non jobs' allowing those who by accident of birth, are born [largely] white into [relative to most of the rest of the world] affluent countries can move where they want within its borders (which oddly given the trope that a vote for Brexit was ‘racist’ actively discriminates against those born into non white less affluent counties never mind if they are objectively more qualified than someone who was born in an EU state), a structure which allowed for wages/conditions to be de facto lowered in the ‘wealthier’ parts of the EU which ironically in turn keeps the less wealthy EU states less wealthy and over reliant on EU subsidies (and over exposed to the hegemony of the ‘big’ powers like Germany, France, etc).
All in an institution driven by the needs of colonial and ex colonial powers (yes France and Holland still have de facto ‘empires’) which upholds the hegemony of the middle/’merchant’ classes and did very little in real terms for the working classes (EU subsidized ‘schemes’ in areas like say the Welsh Valleys were often short term and essentially provided jobs for middle class consultants who parachuted in and then left the area to it).
The EU has done a lot of good – consumer rights, [some] workers’ rights, the brilliant regional food labeling scheme, etc BUT overall, the man in the street hasn’t benefited that much.
For the record I voted remain because I felt on balance (probably no more that about 55/45% wise) that it was overall positive but had/has many, many faults which some of which are irredeemable and un curable and don’t see the UK’s leaving it as apocalyptic.
And if we take Ireland (a beautiful and welcoming if eye wateringly expensive country) while distinctly different from the UK in many ways albeit we share many social/cultural norms it is entrenched in the EU yet has huge social issues and inequality (perpetuated in part by the cabal of the public school educated/Trinity set), a massive housing and energy crisis and a dysfunctional health service and a continued issue of emigration of the young/skilled - to name but a few so EU membership is neither a guarantee of utopia nor at the same time is not being a member/leaving will herald Armageddon.
You make some sensible points but the standard of living isn't far higher in RoI - its about the same given that even the modestly well off pay through the nose for housing, as or prices I don't judge by value of the £ but by the adverts I see for stuff in the Irish Independent stuff is far more expensive even allowing for comparatively good wages, NOT a dig at RoI a place I'd happily live and work.Stan A. Einstein wrote: October 17th, 2022, 8:46 pmI agree in part.CathedralCounty wrote: October 17th, 2022, 3:35 pmStan A. Einstein wrote: October 17th, 2022, 2:38 pm Hi Mike,
I'm afraid I totally disagree that Brexit can be a good thing. What is gained by removing yourself from a free trade agreement with your closest neighbours of half a billion people? What freedom would you lose if the UK rejoined the EU?
It suits the very rich if you deregulate the UK economy. Red tape includes such things as not sending children up chimneys.
Sorry but for me the idea that Brexit can work if only the right people ran it is akin to the snake handling religions of the sputhern US States. If someone gets bitten it's not because it's a stupid idea to handle venomous reptiles, rather it's because their faith was not strong enough.
Incidently as an aside. The snake handlers take their inspiration from St Paul who was bitten by a snake on Malta but suffered no ill effects. Some people choose to believe this was because of Paul's strong faith. I myself put it down more to the fact that there are no venomous snakes in Malta.
On the other hand the EU is largely a technocracy sucking billions into it and employing 1000's of mandarins many in 'non jobs' allowing those who by accident of birth, are born [largely] white into [relative to most of the rest of the world] affluent countries can move where they want within its borders (which oddly given the trope that a vote for Brexit was ‘racist’ actively discriminates against those born into non white less affluent counties never mind if they are objectively more qualified than someone who was born in an EU state), a structure which allowed for wages/conditions to be de facto lowered in the ‘wealthier’ parts of the EU which ironically in turn keeps the less wealthy EU states less wealthy and over reliant on EU subsidies (and over exposed to the hegemony of the ‘big’ powers like Germany, France, etc).
All in an institution driven by the needs of colonial and ex colonial powers (yes France and Holland still have de facto ‘empires’) which upholds the hegemony of the middle/’merchant’ classes and did very little in real terms for the working classes (EU subsidized ‘schemes’ in areas like say the Welsh Valleys were often short term and essentially provided jobs for middle class consultants who parachuted in and then left the area to it).
The EU has done a lot of good – consumer rights, [some] workers’ rights, the brilliant regional food labeling scheme, etc BUT overall, the man in the street hasn’t benefited that much.
For the record I voted remain because I felt on balance (probably no more that about 55/45% wise) that it was overall positive but had/has many, many faults which some of which are irredeemable and un curable and don’t see the UK’s leaving it as apocalyptic.
And if we take Ireland (a beautiful and welcoming if eye wateringly expensive country) while distinctly different from the UK in many ways albeit we share many social/cultural norms it is entrenched in the EU yet has huge social issues and inequality (perpetuated in part by the cabal of the public school educated/Trinity set), a massive housing and energy crisis and a dysfunctional health service and a continued issue of emigration of the young/skilled - to name but a few so EU membership is neither a guarantee of utopia nor at the same time is not being a member/leaving will herald Armageddon.
Ireland is not a utopia. Certainly there is a major housing problem. Moreso in Dublin and to a large part because the country is too Dublin centric. Energy crisis, not so much the problems are there but far less than in the UK. The health service is again far from perfect but it is not nearly as dysfunctional as the NHS. To be clear this is not a criticism of the NHS staff but rather of the chronic underfunding of the last 12 years. Finally the cost of living is high but to a degree anyone visiting from the UK will find the country expensive because since Brexit the pound sterling has tanked.
But you must remember that allowing for all this the standard of living in Ireland is far higher than in the UK. And if you believe, as I do, that the British are no better and no worse than the Irish you do need to ask why. For me it's a no brainer. EU membership.
Think this through.DeePeeNCAFC wrote: October 18th, 2022, 12:07 am It’s not that I feel Brexit is a good/bad thing necessarily, but I’ve long felt the EU is a fraudulent and self-serving organisation and I think that’s ultimately what the British people voted to leave behind.
China are proof that you don’t need to be part of a massive trade organisation to prosper. And most of the benefits of being part of the EU (minimum wage, workers’ rights, freedom of movement) were things the UK led on introducing.
It was the ridiculous grants, the gullible immigration system and the figureheads at EU HQ who wanted to roll out stupid, bureaucratic laws which annoyed the British public so we voted to leave.
My personal wish is that a few other countries leave (difficult to see at present, seeing as we’ve royally f—ed up since Brexit so there are no obvious benefits) and then we can form a new, sensible trade alliance without Brussels interference.
Stan A. Einstein wrote: October 18th, 2022, 10:36 amThink this through.DeePeeNCAFC wrote: October 18th, 2022, 12:07 am It’s not that I feel Brexit is a good/bad thing necessarily, but I’ve long felt the EU is a fraudulent and self-serving organisation and I think that’s ultimately what the British people voted to leave behind.
China are proof that you don’t need to be part of a massive trade organisation to prosper. And most of the benefits of being part of the EU (minimum wage, workers’ rights, freedom of movement) were things the UK led on introducing.
It was the ridiculous grants, the gullible immigration system and the figureheads at EU HQ who wanted to roll out stupid, bureaucratic laws which annoyed the British public so we voted to leave.
My personal wish is that a few other countries leave (difficult to see at present, seeing as we’ve royally f—ed up since Brexit so there are no obvious benefits) and then we can form a new, sensible trade alliance without Brussels interference.
Nigel and Boris told you that if the UK left the EU that all the remaining 27 countries would be falling over themselves to make great trade deals with the EU. Here's your problem. If you want to trade with the EU you have to meet EU standards. In terms you have to obey our rules. If you don't we apply tariffs.
I heard a commentator, I think Carol Malone, complaining that the EU was treating the UK as if it were a third country. Brexiteers don't seem to realise that you are a third country. You voted for it. You were lied to.
If you wish to have tariff free trade with us you have to obey our rules. Rules which since Brexit, you have no say in how they are made.
Ah, but the only thing left of the cataclysmic mini budget, was getting rid of the cap on bankers bonuses brought in by the EU, following the last financial crisis. Now why would they have done that do you think? That's the red tape that brexiteers talk about.Exile 1976 wrote: October 18th, 2022, 1:59 pmStan A. Einstein wrote: October 18th, 2022, 10:36 amThink this through.DeePeeNCAFC wrote: October 18th, 2022, 12:07 am It’s not that I feel Brexit is a good/bad thing necessarily, but I’ve long felt the EU is a fraudulent and self-serving organisation and I think that’s ultimately what the British people voted to leave behind.
China are proof that you don’t need to be part of a massive trade organisation to prosper. And most of the benefits of being part of the EU (minimum wage, workers’ rights, freedom of movement) were things the UK led on introducing.
It was the ridiculous grants, the gullible immigration system and the figureheads at EU HQ who wanted to roll out stupid, bureaucratic laws which annoyed the British public so we voted to leave.
My personal wish is that a few other countries leave (difficult to see at present, seeing as we’ve royally f—ed up since Brexit so there are no obvious benefits) and then we can form a new, sensible trade alliance without Brussels interference.
Nigel and Boris told you that if the UK left the EU that all the remaining 27 countries would be falling over themselves to make great trade deals with the EU. Here's your problem. If you want to trade with the EU you have to meet EU standards. In terms you have to obey our rules. If you don't we apply tariffs.
I heard a commentator, I think Carol Malone, complaining that the EU was treating the UK as if it were a third country. Brexiteers don't seem to realise that you are a third country. You voted for it. You were lied to.
If you wish to have tariff free trade with us you have to obey our rules. Rules which since Brexit, you have no say in how they are made.
Exactly….and most of those pesky, ‘barmy’ EU rules were brought in with UK govs input & backing
Bangitintrnet wrote: October 18th, 2022, 3:10 pmAh, but the only thing left of the cataclysmic mini budget, was getting rid of the cap on bankers bonuses brought in by the EU, following the last financial crisis. Now why would they have done that do you think? That's the red tape that brexiteers talk about.Exile 1976 wrote: October 18th, 2022, 1:59 pmStan A. Einstein wrote: October 18th, 2022, 10:36 amThink this through.DeePeeNCAFC wrote: October 18th, 2022, 12:07 am It’s not that I feel Brexit is a good/bad thing necessarily, but I’ve long felt the EU is a fraudulent and self-serving organisation and I think that’s ultimately what the British people voted to leave behind.
China are proof that you don’t need to be part of a massive trade organisation to prosper. And most of the benefits of being part of the EU (minimum wage, workers’ rights, freedom of movement) were things the UK led on introducing.
It was the ridiculous grants, the gullible immigration system and the figureheads at EU HQ who wanted to roll out stupid, bureaucratic laws which annoyed the British public so we voted to leave.
My personal wish is that a few other countries leave (difficult to see at present, seeing as we’ve royally f—ed up since Brexit so there are no obvious benefits) and then we can form a new, sensible trade alliance without Brussels interference.
Nigel and Boris told you that if the UK left the EU that all the remaining 27 countries would be falling over themselves to make great trade deals with the EU. Here's your problem. If you want to trade with the EU you have to meet EU standards. In terms you have to obey our rules. If you don't we apply tariffs.
I heard a commentator, I think Carol Malone, complaining that the EU was treating the UK as if it were a third country. Brexiteers don't seem to realise that you are a third country. You voted for it. You were lied to.
If you wish to have tariff free trade with us you have to obey our rules. Rules which since Brexit, you have no say in how they are made.
Exactly….and most of those pesky, ‘barmy’ EU rules were brought in with UK govs input & backing
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