Fu Ming wrote: December 14th, 2021, 12:28 pm Here's an interesting question.
In previous years when we have had flu outbreaks, how many or what percentage of people went to the doctors?
I suspect a lot less than actually had it.
A vast amount of people (myself included never went to the doctors when I had flu), just stayed at home or struggled about.
And certainly never bothered with lateral flow tests and PCR tests.
Now anyone who has a slight cough or temperature is taking tests, and self isolating.
So my question are these high Covid figures in comparison to previous flu outbreaks.

That is a very fair point. However without lockdown we know that seasonal flu kills about 12,000 to 20,000 people per year. We know Covid in two years with lockdowns has killed 150,000 in the UK. Four to seven times greater than flu.

Covid is going to be with us for the foreseeable future. Awful as this is, a choice has to be made. That choice being at what point we reach a death toll low enough to resume normal life.

That sounds grotesque I know. However road traffic accidents take about 2,000 lives a year. Whilst we endeavour to mitigate against road deaths as a society we accept the reality that to plus of motor transport is of greater benefit.

Although one of my protagonists on this board refused to answer the question it remains relevant. How many people are we prepared to see die to allow us to regain our freedoms? Easy to decide when 75,000 die prematurely each year. But at 7,500? 750? 7?

Horrible isn't it?

I think you have answered that in your first sentence, up to 20,000.
There are flu vaccinations every year and still up to 20k die.

Bangitintrnet wrote: December 14th, 2021, 1:14 pm I think you have answered that in your first sentence, up to 20,000.
There are flu vaccinations every year and still up to 20k die.

No.

There is no right or wrong answer. Your view, which is perfectly valid, is up to 20,000. Some will be more, some will be less. Some will believe that whatever the number we need to make adjustments to our 'normal' behaviour. Face masks in shops for ever? Sanitizers in shops and pubs forever?

I genuinely don't know. If life has taught me anything, it is that not to believe that because I genuinely believe something that it must be true. Or worse that anyone who disagrees with me must be wrong.

You are correct Stan in that there is no right or wrong answer.
As you say perhaps we will have to change our lifestyle behaviour.
I personally don't see the hardship in wearing masks in shops and on public transport, it is not particularly onerous to do. (Admittedly some people have breathing difficulties).

Fu Ming wrote: December 14th, 2021, 2:00 pm You are correct Stan in that there is no right or wrong answer.
As you say perhaps we will have to change our lifestyle behaviour.
I personally don't see the hardship in wearing masks in shops and on public transport, it is not particularly onerous to do. (Admittedly some people have breathing difficulties).

Agree with this. Stats would indicate that the mask wearing would even reduce the cases of 'flu and colds etc.

Fu Ming wrote: December 14th, 2021, 12:28 pm Here's an interesting question.
In previous years when we have had flu outbreaks, how many or what percentage of people went to the doctors?
I suspect a lot less than actually had it.
A vast amount of people (myself included never went to the doctors when I had flu), just stayed at home or struggled about.
And certainly never bothered with lateral flow tests and PCR tests.
Now anyone who has a slight cough or temperature is taking tests, and self isolating.
So my question are these high Covid figures in comparison to previous flu outbreaks.

On the topic of influenza, many people who claim to have flu in reality probably have a bad cold. Is there a lateral flow test for flu?

Thing is the latral flow tests are so easy to fake you don't even have to take a test you can just put in on line you are negative my daughter's friends do it for night clubs

rncfc wrote: December 14th, 2021, 10:16 am It depends on your perspective on life. If you've already lived the vast majority of yours, you are perhaps not going to mind spending the rest of it locked in your living room with the TV for company.

If you're in your teens or 20s, have spent the last 15 years in school, and have only just started living your life, I think it's totally unfair to be branded as "selfish" for not wanting to remain indoors and be unable to enjoy the sort of freedom that everyone else has enjoyed.

I think, at worst, we might have a winter break. I can't see us going back to the sort of restrictions we had previously. If we do there will be huge revolt now.

I do sympathise with the young and if I was a student now I would be appalled by lockdowns and heavy restrictions on my behaviour, however, I do feel I would hope I’d be a bit considerate. If they want to socialise and who doesn’t? Fine but wear a bloody mask on public transport and in shops. When I have been forced onto public transport, the compliance with regulations was appalling. Mask wearing was minimal and on the last occasion I tried to minimise my exposure by sitting in a seat reserved for the elderly and infirm then a teenage school kid came and set next to me. Presumably either illiterate or a total disregard of the regulations and health of anybody else. Mask wearing is observed well in most other countries with the notable exceptions of GB and USA maybe it’s down to a lack of education and addiction to the lunatic opinions on social media. QAnon - PooAnon I say

Interesting, LowAndHard - my experience has been that the students and young people in the area where I live have generally been quite compliant with mask-wearing and social distancing, whereas the worst behaviours I've seen were at County's game on Saturday in the Hazells Stand where the majority of people were older (50+) and almost no-one was wearing masks either in the concourse or the seats. Despite only being half-full, folk were resolute about not switching from their usual seats to allow a bit of distancing; I moved twice rather than sit in my ST spot so that I didn't have to be right next to someone without a mask on breathing god-knows-what all over me.

As for the football, my best guess would be that we'll have 4-8 weeks in Jan/Feb either with no fixtures at all or no crowds, with the season extended if needs be. Anything more than that, and the Football League are in the unenviable position of having to decide how to handle promotion/relegation issues on the basis of an incomplete season.

Mike I asked a bloke in Aldi Today why he wasn't wearing a mask I was told to mind my own fxxxin business

People are just selfish they won't wear a mask for 10-15 minutes while shopping yet myself and my colleagues have to wear one for 12 hours plus

It's not hard for a few minutes ffs

UPTHEPORT wrote: December 14th, 2021, 3:08 pm Mike I asked a bloke in Aldi Today why he wasn't wearing a mask I was told to mind my own fxxxin business

People are just selfish they won't wear a mask for 10-15 minutes while shopping yet myself and my colleagues have to wear one for 12 hours plus

It's not hard for a few minutes ffs

Yes Kairdiff Exile seems to have been lucky with his transport experiences, my experience on Newport and Caerffili buses has been the opposite. My sympathy to you Jim for having to wear a mask for such long periods I know how uncomfortable that is as my son is a consultant on a covid ward. I worked in the NHS all my life and unless you’re lucky enough to work in a modern unit the conditions are compounded by not having the best of ventilation either.

lowandhard wrote: December 14th, 2021, 3:19 pm

UPTHEPORT wrote: December 14th, 2021, 3:08 pm Mike I asked a bloke in Aldi Today why he wasn't wearing a mask I was told to mind my own fxxxin business

People are just selfish they won't wear a mask for 10-15 minutes while shopping yet myself and my colleagues have to wear one for 12 hours plus

It's not hard for a few minutes ffs

Yes Kairdiff Exile seems to have been lucky with his transport experiences, my experience on Newport and Caerffili buses has been the opposite. My sympathy to you Jim for having to wear a mask for such long periods I know how uncomfortable that is as my son is a consultant on a covid ward. I worked in the NHS all my life and unless you’re lucky enough to work in a modern unit the conditions are compounded by not having the best of ventilation either.

Last summer I boarded a bus and totally forgot to put on my mask. Sadly and no doubt because of the yobbish behaviour cited above, nobody corrected me and 20 minutes into the journey it dawned on me what I had done.

Sometimes people forget. Some people are exempt. I think it should always be remembered that being human we all make mistakes.

That said telling someone to go f themselves is just nasty.

As for having a break for Covid, remember that next season is starting early. Therefore if a break is taken then there is a less of a gap from the finish of this season to next season. If you are in the playoff's you have less time to sign/release players not knowing what division you will be in.

Kairdiff Exile wrote: December 14th, 2021, 3:05 pmI moved twice rather than sit in my ST spot so that I didn't have to be right next to someone without a mask on breathing god-knows-what all over me.

A lot people would refuse to act this way as it would be against their nature. Indeed, it's not very humane. Jesus would weep

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: December 14th, 2021, 2:12 pm

Fu Ming wrote: December 14th, 2021, 2:00 pm You are correct Stan in that there is no right or wrong answer.
As you say perhaps we will have to change our lifestyle behaviour.
I personally don't see the hardship in wearing masks in shops and on public transport, it is not particularly onerous to do. (Admittedly some people have breathing difficulties).

Agree with this. Stats would indicate that the mask wearing would even reduce the cases of 'flu and colds etc.

Wearing masks was not compulsory in England, the Welsh and Scots mandated it long before. Please send me the link to the studies that suggest the approach of the underling governments have made an impact in reducing COVID numbers comparable to England. Thanks