Will the UK join a war with Russia? West in crisis talks over Ukraine



Will there be a war?
President Biden has said that an invasion would be "the most consequential thing that's happened in the world in terms of war and peace since World War II."

Current intelligence assessments from White House officials have concluded that the Kremlin is yet to make a decision on whether it will invade Ukraine.

Talks are ongoing between the US and Russia, who want to halt further eastward expansion and agree not to admit Ukraine as a member of NATO.

Does Boris Johnson drink at work? Does Texas know who Biden is? Does the EU have a money exchange? Does Putin, have the guts?

I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I would only add that Russia also has troops in Belorussia as well. These Russian forces surround two thirds of Ukraine. Ukraine is almost surrounded, not Russia.

Why do we think we can still police the world

Stay out of others business look what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan we never learn

UPTHEPORT wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:55 pm Why do we think we can still police the world

Stay out of others business look what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan we never learn

Good point. We can't even police our own population who break the law, effectively.

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

They are Russian borders.
In Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, NATO has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defences and intelligence and surveillance units.

Described by NATO as combat-ready, the light force presence is designed as a trip wire that would trigger reinforcements in the event a Russian incursion.

NATO also has an air policing mission in these countries, patrolling the skies of the four countries in a mission overseen from the Ramstein airbase in Germany.

NATO also has four multinational standing naval forces that patrol allies and international waters, including the Baltic Sea.

PortandSud wrote: January 29th, 2022, 9:18 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

They are Russian borders.
In Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, NATO has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defences and intelligence and surveillance units.

Described by NATO as combat-ready, the light force presence is designed as a trip wire that would trigger reinforcements in the event a Russian incursion.

NATO also has an air policing mission in these countries, patrolling the skies of the four countries in a mission overseen from the Ramstein airbase in Germany.

NATO also has four multinational standing naval forces that patrol allies and international waters, including the Baltic Sea.

Russia has borders with 14 Countries, only 5 of whom are in NATO, comprising only 6% of it's borders.
I do not describe that as being "surrounded".
Obviously you do.
Russia's navy also patrols international waters.
Whatever next. Airforces flying in the skies?

PortandSud wrote: January 29th, 2022, 9:18 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

They are Russian borders.
In Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, NATO has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defences and intelligence and surveillance units.

Described by NATO as combat-ready, the light force presence is designed as a trip wire that would trigger reinforcements in the event a Russian incursion.

NATO also has an air policing mission in these countries, patrolling the skies of the four countries in a mission overseen from the Ramstein airbase in Germany.

NATO also has four multinational standing naval forces that patrol allies and international waters, including the Baltic Sea.

The NATO information you give is correct, it’s just a pity that you have used the word surrounded. They (Russia) quite obviously are not.

Politicians have to play to their home voters. Putin has no intention of going to war. What he is trying to do is sabre rattle, tell his home audience that he stood up to the West and the West backed down.
Meanwhile Boris et al sabre rattle and hope ti tell home audiences that we all stood up to the Ruskies and the nasty Russians backed down.
Unfortunately anyone who has ever studied European history can tell you that sometimes the dozy pr!cks miscalculate and bingo. In 1914 nobody intended to go to war. And even when it started everyone thought it would be a little war and all over by Christmas.

Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 29th, 2022, 11:58 pm Politicians have to play to their home voters. Putin has no intention of going to war. What he is trying to do is sabre rattle, tell his home audience that he stood up to the West and the West backed down.
Meanwhile Boris et al sabre rattle and hope ti tell home audiences that we all stood up to the Ruskies and the nasty Russians backed down.
Unfortunately anyone who has ever studied European history can tell you that sometimes the dozy pr!cks miscalculate and bingo. In 1914 nobody intended to go to war. And even when it started everyone thought it would be a little war and all over by Christmas.

Agree about the sabre rattling bit Brendan, however, it is a bit deeper than that. Putin has a domestic agenda whereby he is selling to his public the topic that he does not want Ukraine to ever join NATO. He wants that guarantee. He is using the troop build up to crank up diplomatic pressure. This can (and probably will) be resolved by diplomacy. Who blinks first etc. As long as both sides get something out of it, the bombs and bullets won’t be used.

Don’t agree with your analysis about the idea that in 1914 nobody wanted war though. The German Nationalists had been preparing for a war for many years. The assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand was an excuse to mobilise. Then it became tit for tat. Look at the German military preparation with regards to the Schleiffen plan and their concern of the need to protect their flank on their planned march through France. They were well prepared. Too well prepared for diplomacy to come into play.

I do agree with the comment about it supposedly being ‘over by Christmas’. That was the lie we sold to get people to join up to bash the nasty Jerries.

"All over by Christmas" wasn't just propaganda, it was what a fighting alliance of countries thought would happen. The war to end all wars.

NATO is a peacekeeping alliance, and as such is more akin to steward's surrounding the football pitch.

So Russia testing the alliance of NATO IMO is based more on American resolve after the previous administration set an agenda of pulling out of NATO. Clearly Putin doesn't want NATO to expand, and has previous in that NATO didn't get too involved on the ground, during the Russian incursion into Georgia. I agree that Putin wants a diplomatic settlement, but he also wants all his own way.

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote:

PortandSud wrote: January 29th, 2022, 9:18 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

They are Russian borders.
In Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, NATO has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defences and intelligence and surveillance units.

Described by NATO as combat-ready, the light force presence is designed as a trip wire that would trigger reinforcements in the event a Russian incursion.

NATO also has an air policing mission in these countries, patrolling the skies of the four countries in a mission overseen from the Ramstein airbase in Germany.

NATO also has four multinational standing naval forces that patrol allies and international waters, including the Baltic Sea.

Russia has borders with 14 Countries, only 5 of whom are in NATO, comprising only 6% of it's borders.
I do not describe that as being "surrounded".
Obviously you do.
Russia's navy also patrols international waters.
Whatever next. Airforces flying in the skies?

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 29th, 2022, 8:49 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 29th, 2022, 9:18 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

They are Russian borders.
In Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, NATO has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defences and intelligence and surveillance units.

Described by NATO as combat-ready, the light force presence is designed as a trip wire that would trigger reinforcements in the event a Russian incursion.

NATO also has an air policing mission in these countries, patrolling the skies of the four countries in a mission overseen from the Ramstein airbase in Germany.

NATO also has four multinational standing naval forces that patrol allies and international waters, including the Baltic Sea.

Russia has borders with 14 Countries, only 5 of whom are in NATO, comprising only 6% of it's borders.
I do not describe that as being "surrounded".
Obviously you do.
Russia's navy also patrols international waters.
Whatever next. Airforces flying in the skies?

Well with 2.5 m miles of border with China and the 4th largest coastline maybe surrounded was the wrong word but I think that you are splitting hairs and not addressing the real issue of who is the warmonger, the USA are spoiling for a fight and see the Ukraine as the perfect place for this to happen, even the Ukraine are asking the western media to calm down with their claims.

PortandSud wrote: January 30th, 2022, 1:18 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote:

PortandSud wrote: January 29th, 2022, 9:18 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

They are Russian borders.
In Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, NATO has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defences and intelligence and surveillance units.

Described by NATO as combat-ready, the light force presence is designed as a trip wire that would trigger reinforcements in the event a Russian incursion.

NATO also has an air policing mission in these countries, patrolling the skies of the four countries in a mission overseen from the Ramstein airbase in Germany.

NATO also has four multinational standing naval forces that patrol allies and international waters, including the Baltic Sea.

Russia has borders with 14 Countries, only 5 of whom are in NATO, comprising only 6% of it's borders.
I do not describe that as being "surrounded".
Obviously you do.
Russia's navy also patrols international waters.
Whatever next. Airforces flying in the skies?

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 29th, 2022, 8:49 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 29th, 2022, 9:18 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 28th, 2022, 5:03 pm

PortandSud wrote: January 28th, 2022, 2:52 pm I do find it strange that Russia are being accused of "warmongering" by putting troops on their own borders after being surrounded by NATO forces.

I would find it strange that they would be accused of anything else bar "warmongering" after an unprecedented built up of forces on Ukraine's borders, when they are not surrounded by NATO forces.

They are Russian borders.
In Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, NATO has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defences and intelligence and surveillance units.

Described by NATO as combat-ready, the light force presence is designed as a trip wire that would trigger reinforcements in the event a Russian incursion.

NATO also has an air policing mission in these countries, patrolling the skies of the four countries in a mission overseen from the Ramstein airbase in Germany.

NATO also has four multinational standing naval forces that patrol allies and international waters, including the Baltic Sea.

Russia has borders with 14 Countries, only 5 of whom are in NATO, comprising only 6% of it's borders.
I do not describe that as being "surrounded".
Obviously you do.
Russia's navy also patrols international waters.
Whatever next. Airforces flying in the skies?

Well with 2.5 m miles of border with China and the 4th largest coastline maybe surrounded was the wrong word but I think that you are splitting hairs and not addressing the real issue of who is the warmonger, the USA are spoiling for a fight and see the Ukraine as the perfect place for this to happen, even the Ukraine are asking the western media to calm down with their claims.

'The USA are spoiling for a fight' I view as an opinion rather than a fact as you state it. Sadly as I perceive it an ever increasing inability to differentiate nowadays.