whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:13 pm

lowandhard wrote: January 21st, 2022, 8:15 pm

G Guest wrote: January 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm Drakeford said today that a £1 million of the £3 million spectator sport support fund has been paid out with more awards to come. I guess that County will get some of this but Chepstow Race course may be in for the largest pay out because they lost the Welsh Grand National.

Yes, he also said that England’s Covid policy was driven more by Johnson’s political predicament than by the science and he got that right too. Anyway, hopefully no more variants upset our future, everything crossed.

He is a loathsome character, but current Covid policy has been proved to be right.
Despite the naysayers of those west of the Severn, we in England are pretty much all still alive and getting back to endemic normality whilst the Senedd reverts to attacking others to deflect away from justifying their own nanny-state preference.

Enjoy being at the next home game, it's been a long time coming.....

lowandhard wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:37 pm

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:13 pm

lowandhard wrote: January 21st, 2022, 8:15 pm

G Guest wrote: January 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm Drakeford said today that a £1 million of the £3 million spectator sport support fund has been paid out with more awards to come. I guess that County will get some of this but Chepstow Race course may be in for the largest pay out because they lost the Welsh Grand National.

Yes, he also said that England’s Covid policy was driven more by Johnson’s political predicament than by the science and he got that right too. Anyway, hopefully no more variants upset our future, everything crossed.

He is a loathsome character, but current Covid policy has been proved to be right.
Despite the naysayers of those west of the Severn, we in England are pretty much all still alive and getting back to endemic normality whilst the Senedd reverts to attacking others to deflect away from justifying their own nanny-state preference.

Enjoy being at the next home game, it's been a long time coming.....

Not strictly true because in the present news sh!tstorm nobody has been looking at the Covid figures and 2 thousand people have been dying per week though admittedly it seems the hospitals avoided having their ICUs overwhelmed even though work there has hardly proceeded normally has it? I know who I’d prefer setting safety standards.
Anyway, as you say , glad the football is getting back to normal apart maybe from a pass or two.

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:52 pm

lowandhard wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:37 pm

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:13 pm

lowandhard wrote: January 21st, 2022, 8:15 pm

G Guest wrote: January 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm Drakeford said today that a £1 million of the £3 million spectator sport support fund has been paid out with more awards to come. I guess that County will get some of this but Chepstow Race course may be in for the largest pay out because they lost the Welsh Grand National.

Yes, he also said that England’s Covid policy was driven more by Johnson’s political predicament than by the science and he got that right too. Anyway, hopefully no more variants upset our future, everything crossed.

He is a loathsome character, but current Covid policy has been proved to be right.
Despite the naysayers of those west of the Severn, we in England are pretty much all still alive and getting back to endemic normality whilst the Senedd reverts to attacking others to deflect away from justifying their own nanny-state preference.

Enjoy being at the next home game, it's been a long time coming.....

Not strictly true because in the present news sh!tstorm nobody has been looking at the Covid figures and 2 thousand people have been dying per week though admittedly it seems the hospitals avoided having their ICUs overwhelmed even though work there has hardly proceeded normally has it? I know who I’d prefer setting safety standards.
Anyway, as you say , glad the football is getting back to normal apart maybe from a pass or two.

I think the main difference is England has proceeded on the basis that they were confident they'd got the approach right, whereas the Senedd has proceeded on the basis that they are shit scared they'd get it wrong

At some point you have to think of the wellbeing of the majority as a whole (social and economic) rather than the minority who can still choose to avoid risk for the rest of their lives.

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:52 pm

lowandhard wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:37 pm

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 6:13 pm

lowandhard wrote: January 21st, 2022, 8:15 pm

G Guest wrote: January 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm Drakeford said today that a £1 million of the £3 million spectator sport support fund has been paid out with more awards to come. I guess that County will get some of this but Chepstow Race course may be in for the largest pay out because they lost the Welsh Grand National.

Yes, he also said that England’s Covid policy was driven more by Johnson’s political predicament than by the science and he got that right too. Anyway, hopefully no more variants upset our future, everything crossed.

He is a loathsome character, but current Covid policy has been proved to be right.
Despite the naysayers of those west of the Severn, we in England are pretty much all still alive and getting back to endemic normality whilst the Senedd reverts to attacking others to deflect away from justifying their own nanny-state preference.

Enjoy being at the next home game, it's been a long time coming.....

Not strictly true because in the present news sh!tstorm nobody has been looking at the Covid figures and 2 thousand people have been dying per week though admittedly it seems the hospitals avoided having their ICUs overwhelmed even though work there has hardly proceeded normally has it? I know who I’d prefer setting safety standards.
Anyway, as you say , glad the football is getting back to normal apart maybe from a pass or two.

I think the main difference is England has proceeded on the basis that they were confident they'd got the approach right, whereas the Senedd has proceeded on the basis that they are shit scared they'd get it wrong

At some point you have to think of the wellbeing of the majority as a whole (social and economic) rather than the minority who can still choose to avoid risk for the rest of their lives.

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 7:35 pm

On the contrary I think England has proceeded on the basis of how many restrictions their backbenchers and paymasters will tolerate before pulling the plug on the leadership.

Appreciate your point about the wellbeing of the majority. Notice you only mentioned the social and economic wellbeing though.
Presumably you simply forget to mention health, or are you suggesting that is of lesser importance?

Don't think we ignore the fact that the minority are not avoiding risk as you suggest. They have and continue to have a negative impact on the health of the majority.

As for the senedd being scared of getting it wrong, I see that as a compliment. So we can agree on that.

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 5:49 pm Is £1 million gross or lost profit, because it was televised, and they saved costs on staff, food etc.

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 9:53 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 7:35 pm

On the contrary I think England has proceeded on the basis of how many restrictions their backbenchers and paymasters will tolerate before pulling the plug on the leadership.

Appreciate your point about the wellbeing of the majority. Notice you only mentioned the social and economic wellbeing though.
Presumably you simply forget to mention health, or are you suggesting that is of lesser importance?

Don't think we ignore the fact that the minority are not avoiding risk as you suggest. They have and continue to have a negative impact on the health of the majority.

As for the senedd being scared of getting it wrong, I see that as a compliment. So we can agree on that.

Your presumption is wrong, I absolutely include mental health in social wellbeing - but particularly more of the social wellbeing of the young and of those venturing out in married and family life.

You see, this forum is not a typical benchmark of society, it leans heavily to the those who are approaching or are already at retirement stage, who live , by comparison to younger age groups, sedentary lives/lifestyles that quite easily adapt to the social and economic implications of lockdowns.

Think back to 20 months ago and almost everyone, quite rightly, towed the line, no vaccinations, more significant strains, no specific care plans, no understanding of a modern day pandemic.

But that was then, not now.

Everyone who is deemed vulnerable has had the chance to be vaccinated and now boosted, they cant be anymore protected than they are now.

The game has changed, Covid is with us, mildly, so we are looking at endemic disease now. You cant continue to restrict society when a disease becomes endemic because you'll be doing so forever.

But they still insist on everyone else restricting their lives so that they continue their own largely unhindered. But they don't go to nightclubs, don't need to get on a bus or a train every day to get to work, or mix with others when there. Mortgages paid up and pensions rolling in. They can go to Tesco at midnight if they want to avoid crowds. No child care to organise, no worries about the quality of their children's schooling, or of universities ripping money out of their children's fees whilst they conduct lectures remotely, off-campus.

At this stage of Covid all I see here is a minority of people who have already lived their lives insisting that others, who are just setting out on theirs, to refrain from doing so.

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 10:34 pm

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 9:53 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 7:35 pm

On the contrary I think England has proceeded on the basis of how many restrictions their backbenchers and paymasters will tolerate before pulling the plug on the leadership.

Appreciate your point about the wellbeing of the majority. Notice you only mentioned the social and economic wellbeing though.
Presumably you simply forget to mention health, or are you suggesting that is of lesser importance?

Don't think we ignore the fact that the minority are not avoiding risk as you suggest. They have and continue to have a negative impact on the health of the majority.

As for the senedd being scared of getting it wrong, I see that as a compliment. So we can agree on that.

Your presumption is wrong, I absolutely include mental health in social wellbeing - but particularly more of the social wellbeing of the young and of those venturing out in married and family life.

You see, this forum is not a typical benchmark of society, it leans heavily to the those who are approaching or are already at retirement stage, who live , by comparison to younger age groups, sedentary lives/lifestyles that quite easily adapt to the social and economic implications of lockdowns.

Think back to 20 months ago and almost everyone, quite rightly, towed the line, no vaccinations, more significant strains, no specific care plans, no understanding of a modern day pandemic.

But that was then, not now.

Everyone who is deemed vulnerable has had the chance to be vaccinated and now boosted, they cant be anymore protected than they are now.

The game has changed, Covid is with us, mildly, so we are looking at endemic disease now. You cant continue to restrict society when a disease becomes endemic because you'll be doing so forever.

But they still insist on everyone else restricting their lives so that they continue their own largely unhindered. But they don't go to nightclubs, don't need to get on a bus or a train every day to get to work, or mix with others when there. Mortgages paid up and pensions rolling in. They can go to Tesco at midnight if they want to avoid crowds. No child care to organise, no worries about the quality of their children's schooling, or of universities ripping money out of their children's fees whilst they conduct lectures remotely, off-campus.

At this stage of Covid all I see here is a minority of people who have already lived their lives insisting that others, who are just setting out on theirs, to refrain from doing so.

As you do include mental health in wellbeing you will note that my stated assumption was correct in that you forget to mention it in your original post.

I clearly have a different understanding of what is meant by the adjective endemic i.e. widespread within a place or population. Therefore the virus is not becoming endemic. It has been for the 20 months you talk about; is currently and maybe will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
Neither do I see things in such a black and white Old versus Young stereotypical way way as you appear to do. My life as a retired person is definitely not largely unhindered.

I see the biggest hindrance in mitigating the effects of this virus are the number of selfish, negligent and delusional members of society of all ages. Although my observations. memories and experiences show me that the young undoubtedly have a bigger percentage of those I mention. Yet they do not need to 'refrain from living their lives' as you state the minority insist upon, to be less selfish, negligent or delusional.

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 10:51 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 10:34 pm

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 9:53 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 7:35 pm

On the contrary I think England has proceeded on the basis of how many restrictions their backbenchers and paymasters will tolerate before pulling the plug on the leadership.

Appreciate your point about the wellbeing of the majority. Notice you only mentioned the social and economic wellbeing though.
Presumably you simply forget to mention health, or are you suggesting that is of lesser importance?

Don't think we ignore the fact that the minority are not avoiding risk as you suggest. They have and continue to have a negative impact on the health of the majority.

As for the senedd being scared of getting it wrong, I see that as a compliment. So we can agree on that.

Your presumption is wrong, I absolutely include mental health in social wellbeing - but particularly more of the social wellbeing of the young and of those venturing out in married and family life.

You see, this forum is not a typical benchmark of society, it leans heavily to the those who are approaching or are already at retirement stage, who live , by comparison to younger age groups, sedentary lives/lifestyles that quite easily adapt to the social and economic implications of lockdowns.

Think back to 20 months ago and almost everyone, quite rightly, towed the line, no vaccinations, more significant strains, no specific care plans, no understanding of a modern day pandemic.

But that was then, not now.

Everyone who is deemed vulnerable has had the chance to be vaccinated and now boosted, they cant be anymore protected than they are now.

The game has changed, Covid is with us, mildly, so we are looking at endemic disease now. You cant continue to restrict society when a disease becomes endemic because you'll be doing so forever.

But they still insist on everyone else restricting their lives so that they continue their own largely unhindered. But they don't go to nightclubs, don't need to get on a bus or a train every day to get to work, or mix with others when there. Mortgages paid up and pensions rolling in. They can go to Tesco at midnight if they want to avoid crowds. No child care to organise, no worries about the quality of their children's schooling, or of universities ripping money out of their children's fees whilst they conduct lectures remotely, off-campus.

At this stage of Covid all I see here is a minority of people who have already lived their lives insisting that others, who are just setting out on theirs, to refrain from doing so.

As you do include mental health in wellbeing you will note that my stated assumption was correct in that you forget to mention it in your original post.

I clearly have a different understanding of what is meant by the adjective endemic i.e. widespread within a place or population. Therefore the virus is not becoming endemic. It has been for the 20 months you talk about; is currently and maybe will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
Neither do I see things in such a black and white Old versus Young stereotypical way way as you appear to do. My life as a retired person is definitely not largely unhindered.

I see the biggest hindrance in mitigating the effects of this virus are the number of selfish, negligent and delusional members of society of all ages. Although my observations. memories and experiences show me that the young undoubtedly have a bigger percentage of those I mention. Yet they do not need to 'refrain from living their lives' as you state the minority insist upon, to be less selfish, negligent or delusional.

Then we will have to agree to disagree. I didn't forget to include mental health, but you assumed I did because I didn't mention it. Pandemic in a disease context is one of sudden increase in cases across the countries, continents and the world. That's where we've been up to now
Endemic in a disease context is constantly present in a population or region, with relatively low spread. That's where we are heading. Like flue and like influenza.

But to be clear, you are the one crystallising the points into young v old and using the rather blunt descriptions of the selfish, negligent and delusional. They may well consider your viewpoint to be selfish and delusional in the context of Covid as we now know it.

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 9:53 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 7:35 pm

On the contrary I think England has proceeded on the basis of how many restrictions their backbenchers and paymasters will tolerate before pulling the plug on the leadership.

Appreciate your point about the wellbeing of the majority. Notice you only mentioned the social and economic wellbeing though.
Presumably you simply forget to mention health, or are you suggesting that is of lesser importance?

Don't think we ignore the fact that the minority are not avoiding risk as you suggest. They have and continue to have a negative impact on the health of the majority.

As for the senedd being scared of getting it wrong, I see that as a compliment. So we can agree on that.

Your presumption is wrong, I absolutely include mental health in social wellbeing - but particularly more of the social wellbeing of the young and of those venturing out in married and family life.

You see, this forum is not a typical benchmark of society, it leans heavily to the those who are approaching or are already at retirement stage, who live , by comparison to younger age groups, sedentary lives/lifestyles that quite easily adapt to the social and economic implications of lockdowns.

Think back to 20 months ago and almost everyone, quite rightly, towed the line, no vaccinations, more significant strains, no specific care plans, no understanding of a modern day pandemic.

But that was then, not now.

Everyone who is deemed vulnerable has had the chance to be vaccinated and now boosted, they cant be anymore protected than they are now.

The game has changed, Covid is with us, mildly, so we are looking at endemic disease now. You cant continue to restrict society when a disease becomes endemic because you'll be doing so forever.

But they still insist on everyone else restricting their lives so that they continue their own largely unhindered. But they don't go to nightclubs, don't need to get on a bus or a train every day to get to work, or mix with others when there. Mortgages paid up and pensions rolling in. They can go to Tesco at midnight if they want to avoid crowds. No child care to organise, no worries about the quality of their children's schooling, or of universities ripping money out of their children's fees whilst they conduct lectures remotely, off-campus.

At this stage of Covid all I see here is a minority of people who have already lived their lives insisting that others, who are just setting out on theirs, to refrain from doing so.

lowandhard wrote: January 23rd, 2022, 12:20 am Furthermore although matters appear to have improved, the proclamation of “ no holds barred ‘“ opening up is still a bit of a gamble by this charlatan of a Prime Minister. It should not be forgotten ( although the news programs appear to have ) that 2 thousand people are still dying from Covid every week and the apparent lower case rate may well be down because of a falloff in testing. Some estimates make the true rate at 400k not 90k daily rate and one shouldn’t underestimate the suffering caused by long Covid which is certainly visited on the young as well as the old. The lack of caution is all the more concerning because there are rumours from the continent of a BA2 variant, let’s hope it’s no worse than this omicron. I, like everyone else want to get back to “ normality “ but my preference will be to do that in a measured, cautious way in order to protect myself and others, under this government the priority is the treasury which is incredible concerning the wastage of funds as handouts to their friends with spurious contracts for PPE and Test and Trace. It’s worth repeating that there can be no economic recovery without controlling the virus.

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 23rd, 2022, 7:05 am

whoareya wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 9:53 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 7:35 pm

On the contrary I think England has proceeded on the basis of how many restrictions their backbenchers and paymasters will tolerate before pulling the plug on the leadership.

Appreciate your point about the wellbeing of the majority. Notice you only mentioned the social and economic wellbeing though.
Presumably you simply forget to mention health, or are you suggesting that is of lesser importance?

Don't think we ignore the fact that the minority are not avoiding risk as you suggest. They have and continue to have a negative impact on the health of the majority.

As for the senedd being scared of getting it wrong, I see that as a compliment. So we can agree on that.

Your presumption is wrong, I absolutely include mental health in social wellbeing - but particularly more of the social wellbeing of the young and of those venturing out in married and family life.

You see, this forum is not a typical benchmark of society, it leans heavily to the those who are approaching or are already at retirement stage, who live , by comparison to younger age groups, sedentary lives/lifestyles that quite easily adapt to the social and economic implications of lockdowns.

Think back to 20 months ago and almost everyone, quite rightly, towed the line, no vaccinations, more significant strains, no specific care plans, no understanding of a modern day pandemic.

But that was then, not now.

Everyone who is deemed vulnerable has had the chance to be vaccinated and now boosted, they cant be anymore protected than they are now.

The game has changed, Covid is with us, mildly, so we are looking at endemic disease now. You cant continue to restrict society when a disease becomes endemic because you'll be doing so forever.

But they still insist on everyone else restricting their lives so that they continue their own largely unhindered. But they don't go to nightclubs, don't need to get on a bus or a train every day to get to work, or mix with others when there. Mortgages paid up and pensions rolling in. They can go to Tesco at midnight if they want to avoid crowds. No child care to organise, no worries about the quality of their children's schooling, or of universities ripping money out of their children's fees whilst they conduct lectures remotely, off-campus.

At this stage of Covid all I see here is a minority of people who have already lived their lives insisting that others, who are just setting out on theirs, to refrain from doing so.

It's not though is it. Think about someone in their 20's, involved in a motorbike accident and has a scan. They find no internal injury but pick up a brain tumor, sizeable but still operable. However the consultant has an issue, his surgical team is not complete due to covid sickness. He can get someone from a neighbouring hospital to make up the team. He then has the problem of a patient needing to recover in intensive care, that is occupied mainly by covid patients. He doesn't want to operate, put him in a very vulnerable position and him get covid. So he postponed the the operation and deals with the broken bones. The patient is in pain, but the nurses are on sick leave or drafted into ICU, or looking after visitors to check that they are not bringing covid to a covid free ward. Meanwhile an operable tumor is growing, what would you do? Where is the patient going to fall into the statistics if he dies of cancer a year later when he could have been saved. Just a negative statistic against the NHS. Never mind we all watched the County get stuffed at home by Salford, what a great time we all had.