CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 12:39 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 17th, 2022, 11:42 am

CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:48 am

landinho wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:06 am Some quotes in a BBC piece this weekend - mainly about the rugby, but with discussion of the payments to clubs. Sounds like no payment has been made and WG are still at the stage of asking for receipts… bit disappointed payments weren’t set up earlier (even if in part) given cash flow challenges in pro sports?

Scarlets chairman Simon Muderack says the region are yet to receive any money.
"We're yet to work through the final detail of that and receive funds, which we'll hopefully be able to do shortly (…) Welsh government guidance to us has been 'put your claim in',"

"We will find out over the course of time that that needs to be in fairly short order and where that sits within the other requests that have come in, and against the £3m that's been announced (…) there might be an opportunity to consider the top line £3m figure."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/wales/59997542.amp

Ultimately, WE pay for this via tax (ironically subsidised by English taxpayers one way or another) - I hope there is a realisation that this policy, while initially coming from the right place, was based not only on somewhat unsound science but was ill thought out and poorly executed so as to become farce (i.e., 1000’s of fans going to ‘away’ games and/or fans of English clubs attending game in England, etc ditto with nightclubbing) – stoic, proud and stubborn (and ultimately decent & honourable) Mark Drakeford and his acolytes will not apologise for the damage done to Welsh sport and society and cite impossible to prove figures (‘our measures worked because imagine how much worse things would have been if we hadn’t done it’).

Accept that the fan ban has done damage to Welsh sport. As for other areas such as hospitality, there has been plenty of damage done in England due to people's behaviours not Governments measures. It's very easy to blame, often wrongly in my view, Governments for those behaviours. Impossible to prove figures? Yes, although case rates and hospitalisations do appear to indicate that the Welsh approach has been more successful than England.
The question most relevent to me now as a County supporter is will the Welsh Government take a different approach if/when case rates and hospitalisation increase again in the forthcoming months. With the inevitable waning of the booster efficacy, people's behaviours become less careful and 10s of millions remain not fully vaccinated it is certainly a real possibility before this season is over.

in my view this should be based on science and what we know rather than what have proved to be outlandish and overly pessimistic 'modelling' (modellers admit that they only model 'worse case' scenarios) - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/my- ... -committee - fair enough if the hospitalisation and death rates are through the roof lock us down all ends up (but with some caveats) but if millions are infected but not ill or only mildly ill then it is essentially little more than a cold which is well – life I hope it’s the latter of the two!

What we do know is outdoor event are ‘safe(er)’ and are not generally thought to be ‘super spreader’ events indeed many scientists now debunk the whole idea of ‘super spreader’ events and say community/localised transmission [especially indoors] is far more likely.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... d-response

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 17th, 2022, 1:17 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 12:39 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 17th, 2022, 11:42 am

CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:48 am

landinho wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:06 am Some quotes in a BBC piece this weekend - mainly about the rugby, but with discussion of the payments to clubs. Sounds like no payment has been made and WG are still at the stage of asking for receipts… bit disappointed payments weren’t set up earlier (even if in part) given cash flow challenges in pro sports?

Scarlets chairman Simon Muderack says the region are yet to receive any money.
"We're yet to work through the final detail of that and receive funds, which we'll hopefully be able to do shortly (…) Welsh government guidance to us has been 'put your claim in',"

"We will find out over the course of time that that needs to be in fairly short order and where that sits within the other requests that have come in, and against the £3m that's been announced (…) there might be an opportunity to consider the top line £3m figure."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/wales/59997542.amp

Ultimately, WE pay for this via tax (ironically subsidised by English taxpayers one way or another) - I hope there is a realisation that this policy, while initially coming from the right place, was based not only on somewhat unsound science but was ill thought out and poorly executed so as to become farce (i.e., 1000’s of fans going to ‘away’ games and/or fans of English clubs attending game in England, etc ditto with nightclubbing) – stoic, proud and stubborn (and ultimately decent & honourable) Mark Drakeford and his acolytes will not apologise for the damage done to Welsh sport and society and cite impossible to prove figures (‘our measures worked because imagine how much worse things would have been if we hadn’t done it’).

Accept that the fan ban has done damage to Welsh sport. As for other areas such as hospitality, there has been plenty of damage done in England due to people's behaviours not Governments measures. It's very easy to blame, often wrongly in my view, Governments for those behaviours. Impossible to prove figures? Yes, although case rates and hospitalisations do appear to indicate that the Welsh approach has been more successful than England.
The question most relevent to me now as a County supporter is will the Welsh Government take a different approach if/when case rates and hospitalisation increase again in the forthcoming months. With the inevitable waning of the booster efficacy, people's behaviours become less careful and 10s of millions remain not fully vaccinated it is certainly a real possibility before this season is over.

in my view this should be based on science and what we know rather than what have proved to be outlandish and overly pessimistic 'modelling' (modellers admit that they only model 'worse case' scenarios) - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/my- ... -committee - fair enough if the hospitalisation and death rates are through the roof lock us down all ends up (but with some caveats) but if millions are infected but not ill or only mildly ill then it is essentially little more than a cold which is well – life I hope it’s the latter of the two!

What we do know is outdoor event are ‘safe(er)’ and are not generally thought to be ‘super spreader’ events indeed many scientists now debunk the whole idea of ‘super spreader’ events and say community/localised transmission [especially indoors] is far more likely.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... d-response

In agreement with this post. Haven't read the guardian article but accept what you say about it's findings, which co-incides with what a professor (forgotten her name) said on the TVs Christmas lectures programmes on covid. She also gave convincing , to me at least, figures that showed that the rise in cases during the Euro's was down to an aggregate of indoor pub gatherings and not the so called 'super spreader events' of the fans attendances at the England matches.
Personally believe that the biggest danger of a repeat of the Welsh 'fan ban' would be if the unvaccinated covid sufferers continue to disproportionate fill hospital beds and especially ICUs. Will that give an excuse for further 'fan bans' ? Wouldn't see the logic personally, as surely the wider and long-term issue of what to do specifically with the unvaccinated continuing to do harm to the Welsh NHS, and the nations health would be best addressed, and leave fully vaccinated sports fans attending outdoor events alone.

CathedralCounty wrote: January 18th, 2022, 2:40 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 17th, 2022, 1:17 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 12:39 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 17th, 2022, 11:42 am

CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:48 am

landinho wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:06 am Some quotes in a BBC piece this weekend - mainly about the rugby, but with discussion of the payments to clubs. Sounds like no payment has been made and WG are still at the stage of asking for receipts… bit disappointed payments weren’t set up earlier (even if in part) given cash flow challenges in pro sports?

Scarlets chairman Simon Muderack says the region are yet to receive any money.
"We're yet to work through the final detail of that and receive funds, which we'll hopefully be able to do shortly (…) Welsh government guidance to us has been 'put your claim in',"

"We will find out over the course of time that that needs to be in fairly short order and where that sits within the other requests that have come in, and against the £3m that's been announced (…) there might be an opportunity to consider the top line £3m figure."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/wales/59997542.amp

Ultimately, WE pay for this via tax (ironically subsidised by English taxpayers one way or another) - I hope there is a realisation that this policy, while initially coming from the right place, was based not only on somewhat unsound science but was ill thought out and poorly executed so as to become farce (i.e., 1000’s of fans going to ‘away’ games and/or fans of English clubs attending game in England, etc ditto with nightclubbing) – stoic, proud and stubborn (and ultimately decent & honourable) Mark Drakeford and his acolytes will not apologise for the damage done to Welsh sport and society and cite impossible to prove figures (‘our measures worked because imagine how much worse things would have been if we hadn’t done it’).

Accept that the fan ban has done damage to Welsh sport. As for other areas such as hospitality, there has been plenty of damage done in England due to people's behaviours not Governments measures. It's very easy to blame, often wrongly in my view, Governments for those behaviours. Impossible to prove figures? Yes, although case rates and hospitalisations do appear to indicate that the Welsh approach has been more successful than England.
The question most relevent to me now as a County supporter is will the Welsh Government take a different approach if/when case rates and hospitalisation increase again in the forthcoming months. With the inevitable waning of the booster efficacy, people's behaviours become less careful and 10s of millions remain not fully vaccinated it is certainly a real possibility before this season is over.

in my view this should be based on science and what we know rather than what have proved to be outlandish and overly pessimistic 'modelling' (modellers admit that they only model 'worse case' scenarios) - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/my- ... -committee - fair enough if the hospitalisation and death rates are through the roof lock us down all ends up (but with some caveats) but if millions are infected but not ill or only mildly ill then it is essentially little more than a cold which is well – life I hope it’s the latter of the two!

What we do know is outdoor event are ‘safe(er)’ and are not generally thought to be ‘super spreader’ events indeed many scientists now debunk the whole idea of ‘super spreader’ events and say community/localised transmission [especially indoors] is far more likely.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... d-response

In agreement with this post. Haven't read the guardian article but accept what you say about it's findings, which co-incides with what a professor (forgotten her name) said on the TVs Christmas lectures programmes on covid. She also gave convincing , to me at least, figures that showed that the rise in cases during the Euro's was down to an aggregate of indoor pub gatherings and not the so called 'super spreader events' of the fans attendances at the England matches.
Personally believe that the biggest danger of a repeat of the Welsh 'fan ban' would be if the unvaccinated covid sufferers continue to disproportionate fill hospital beds and especially ICUs. Will that give an excuse for further 'fan bans' ? Wouldn't see the logic personally, as surely the wider and long-term issue of what to do specifically with the unvaccinated continuing to do harm to the Welsh NHS, and the nations health would be best addressed, and leave fully vaccinated sports fans attending outdoor events alone.

The issue is when good, on paper at least, rules/policies are so cack handedly applied or impossible to apply and monitor they de facto become bad policies/rules even if the sentiment and rationale behind them may (or may not be) sound - they effectively become farcical and untenable as a result – which worse than being frustrating & inconvenient and economically impactful (bad in themselves) they act to undermine the genuine and more successful/sensible & lower impact measures in place as people get fatigued and grow to resent ANY rules

lowandhard wrote: January 18th, 2022, 6:14 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: January 18th, 2022, 2:40 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 17th, 2022, 1:17 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 12:39 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: January 17th, 2022, 11:42 am

CathedralCounty wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:48 am

landinho wrote: January 17th, 2022, 10:06 am Some quotes in a BBC piece this weekend - mainly about the rugby, but with discussion of the payments to clubs. Sounds like no payment has been made and WG are still at the stage of asking for receipts… bit disappointed payments weren’t set up earlier (even if in part) given cash flow challenges in pro sports?

Scarlets chairman Simon Muderack says the region are yet to receive any money.
"We're yet to work through the final detail of that and receive funds, which we'll hopefully be able to do shortly (…) Welsh government guidance to us has been 'put your claim in',"

"We will find out over the course of time that that needs to be in fairly short order and where that sits within the other requests that have come in, and against the £3m that's been announced (…) there might be an opportunity to consider the top line £3m figure."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/wales/59997542.amp

Ultimately, WE pay for this via tax (ironically subsidised by English taxpayers one way or another) - I hope there is a realisation that this policy, while initially coming from the right place, was based not only on somewhat unsound science but was ill thought out and poorly executed so as to become farce (i.e., 1000’s of fans going to ‘away’ games and/or fans of English clubs attending game in England, etc ditto with nightclubbing) – stoic, proud and stubborn (and ultimately decent & honourable) Mark Drakeford and his acolytes will not apologise for the damage done to Welsh sport and society and cite impossible to prove figures (‘our measures worked because imagine how much worse things would have been if we hadn’t done it’).

Accept that the fan ban has done damage to Welsh sport. As for other areas such as hospitality, there has been plenty of damage done in England due to people's behaviours not Governments measures. It's very easy to blame, often wrongly in my view, Governments for those behaviours. Impossible to prove figures? Yes, although case rates and hospitalisations do appear to indicate that the Welsh approach has been more successful than England.
The question most relevent to me now as a County supporter is will the Welsh Government take a different approach if/when case rates and hospitalisation increase again in the forthcoming months. With the inevitable waning of the booster efficacy, people's behaviours become less careful and 10s of millions remain not fully vaccinated it is certainly a real possibility before this season is over.

in my view this should be based on science and what we know rather than what have proved to be outlandish and overly pessimistic 'modelling' (modellers admit that they only model 'worse case' scenarios) - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/my- ... -committee - fair enough if the hospitalisation and death rates are through the roof lock us down all ends up (but with some caveats) but if millions are infected but not ill or only mildly ill then it is essentially little more than a cold which is well – life I hope it’s the latter of the two!

What we do know is outdoor event are ‘safe(er)’ and are not generally thought to be ‘super spreader’ events indeed many scientists now debunk the whole idea of ‘super spreader’ events and say community/localised transmission [especially indoors] is far more likely.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... d-response

In agreement with this post. Haven't read the guardian article but accept what you say about it's findings, which co-incides with what a professor (forgotten her name) said on the TVs Christmas lectures programmes on covid. She also gave convincing , to me at least, figures that showed that the rise in cases during the Euro's was down to an aggregate of indoor pub gatherings and not the so called 'super spreader events' of the fans attendances at the England matches.
Personally believe that the biggest danger of a repeat of the Welsh 'fan ban' would be if the unvaccinated covid sufferers continue to disproportionate fill hospital beds and especially ICUs. Will that give an excuse for further 'fan bans' ? Wouldn't see the logic personally, as surely the wider and long-term issue of what to do specifically with the unvaccinated continuing to do harm to the Welsh NHS, and the nations health would be best addressed, and leave fully vaccinated sports fans attending outdoor events alone.

The issue is when good, on paper at least, rules/policies are so cack handedly applied or impossible to apply and monitor they de facto become bad policies/rules even if the sentiment and rationale behind them may (or may not be) sound - they effectively become farcical and untenable as a result – which worse than being frustrating & inconvenient and economically impactful (bad in themselves) they act to undermine the genuine and more successful/sensible & lower impact measures in place as people get fatigued and grow to resent ANY rules

Yes, the problem is not Drakeford who is merely trying to keep the fatalities low and therefore keeping hospitals as least under pressure as is possible. From my standpoint the problem is the f¥cking idiots who whether from a feeling of invincibility or sheer cussedness won’t wear a mask let alone act sensibly otherwise. Travelling on public transport or visiting a supermarket is a lottery because of the stupid ( and often belligerent ) fools who refuse to mask up often hiding behind a £2 badge that they bought online. There should be no exceptions to masking, I’ve got COPD and masks cause no problems whatsoever in fact in cold weather it’s better for my chest. The problem has lain with inability or unwillingness to police this antisocial behaviour. With a PM like Johnson as an example though it’s hardly surprising, he and his partners in crime appear to contract Covid on approximately a monthly basis.

County4Life wrote: January 19th, 2022, 6:16 pm Honestly who cares for stats. The publications that produce stats control your mind a bit too much on here. It's riduculous to imagine stats are not loaded to persuasion

G Guest wrote: January 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm Drakeford said today that a £1 million of the £3 million spectator sport support fund has been paid out with more awards to come. I guess that County will get some of this but Chepstow Race course may be in for the largest pay out because they lost the Welsh Grand National.

Blackandamber wrote: January 21st, 2022, 8:55 pm I was in a long queue for prescriptions today in a pharmacy in Cwmbran. I was the only one wearing a mask. It almost beggars belief that in a building where people are getting free medications to protect their health, nobody could give a damn about anyone else's health. They don't even give a thought for the pharmacy's employees who have to wear a mask all day long to protect people like them.

lowandhard wrote: January 21st, 2022, 9:13 pm

Blackandamber wrote: January 21st, 2022, 8:55 pm I was in a long queue for prescriptions today in a pharmacy in Cwmbran. I was the only one wearing a mask. It almost beggars belief that in a building where people are getting free medications to protect their health, nobody could give a damn about anyone else's health. They don't even give a thought for the pharmacy's employees who have to wear a mask all day long to protect people like them.

As you say, absolutely astonishing and so very disappointing not to mention disrespectful. Times I fear have changed, I worked in the NHS as a hospital pharmacist and as a senior community pharmacist and I always felt respected. The stories I hear these days about how health workers are treated are really horrifying and we should all be appalled and always be willing to stand up and support health workers if they need it. It’s very depressing.

G Guest wrote: January 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm Drakeford said today that a £1 million of the £3 million spectator sport support fund has been paid out with more awards to come. I guess that County will get some of this but Chepstow Race course may be in for the largest pay out because they lost the Welsh Grand National.

lowandhard wrote: January 21st, 2022, 8:15 pm

G Guest wrote: January 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm Drakeford said today that a £1 million of the £3 million spectator sport support fund has been paid out with more awards to come. I guess that County will get some of this but Chepstow Race course may be in for the largest pay out because they lost the Welsh Grand National.

Yes, he also said that England’s Covid policy was driven more by Johnson’s political predicament than by the science and he got that right too. Anyway, hopefully no more variants upset our future, everything crossed.