Billy Lucas knew and those with long memories remember.

Many years go in the early 1970s Newport County appointed a manager who was the youngest in the football league. What he lacked in experience he made up for in coaching ability and indeed went on to have a career in the old first division as a coach.

He had this wonderful idea. Play football. Play out from the back. No more of the tactics of making sure as your first duty that the ball was too far away from your own goal so as to prevent the opposition from being gifted easy and frequent scoring opportunities.

Tailed off at the bottom of the League, without a win by Christmas, humiliated by non League opposition in the Cup, Bobby Ferguson had to go. Replaced by a man who knew that before you could play football you had to earn the right. And faffing about in you final third is all very well in training but if you have inexperienced young lads and try that in Division Four, the hard, older and ruthless so called journeyman will have you for breakfast.

Nelson might have been perplexed yesterday, us coffin dodgers, and Billy up in heaven were not.

Well yes, exactly that! And apart from the aesthetic spectacle of your goalkeeper out dribbling the opposing forwards, I fail to see what good it does apart from gifting goals to a grateful opposition. It certainly fails to advance the cause of every football team’s aim ( or should be ) ie that is the scoring of goals!
Our aim should be to get the ball forward quickly and effectively to midfield and beyond in order to pose a threat to the opposing goal. All this holding the ball at the back is madness unless you’ve got worldbeaters all over the team and I venture to suggest, that we haven’t!
My advice, play your football in the opposition half, a novel idea perhaps these days but bloody effective and worth a trainload of coaching manuals which imo should be religiously transported to the council’s recycling plant. The best coaches in our league are ones with 42 seats.

It's funny the things you remember and the things you forget. I had forgotten that Bobby Ferguson managed Ipswich for so long. The Billy Lucas story I do remember, it wasn't a director but an interview on 'On the Ball' the ITV version of Football Focus. He was asked whether he'd like to have George Best in his team and replied "I'd rather have Billy Bremner, a much better player'. I had a friend at the time who was a plastic Leeds fan, who didn't shut up about it for weeks afterwards.

Agree, in with view on player managers. For me they are are invariably a let down. How you can bollock a player when you have had a stinker is beyond me.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:It's funny the things you remember and the things you forget. I had forgotten that Bobby Ferguson managed Ipswich for so long. The Billy Lucas story I do remember, it wasn't a director but an interview on 'On the Ball' the ITV version of Football Focus. He was asked whether he'd like to have George Best in his team and replied "I'd rather have Billy Bremner, a much better player'. I had a friend at the time who was a plastic Leeds fan, who didn't shut up about it for weeks afterwards.

Agree, in with view on player managers. For me they are are invariably a let down. How you can bollock a player when you have had a stinker is beyond me.

You can only bollock a player when he repeatedly makes the same mistakes. And if he continues to make the same mistakes you get rid. I think if you're the player-manager and it's you having the stinker and making the same mistakes then you stop picking yourself. Or resign.

I don't disagree with the basic point of your original post, and that all the faffing around playing football in your own penalty area is not where you should start. However the overall plan is to change the footballing philosophy to a more passing game and in order to do that bring in younger players that can excel under such tactics.

I think Jardim is being very honest. It's going to take time and there are going to be games where, unfortunately it really isn't going to work well. Saturday was one of those days. But it's not just the personnel at a fault, it's possibly the fact that Port Vale, like Accrington the week before, knew exactly how County were going to play and set up to take advantage. All pre-season County played a back four, but following a narrow Cheltenham defeat and a heavy League Cupo defeat changed to a back five to shore up a leaky defence. It was a short-term fix, and like any short-term fix to anything that leaks, the neccessary correct repairs should have been undertaken to prevent the leaking re-occuring. The switch to a back five was merely like putting a sticking plaster over the problem (and not even a waterproof plaster) and expecting a similar outcome to identifying the reason for the leakage and eliminating it.

I don't think individually County's defence is poor, but there are aspects to it that need addressing. I think there is not enough emphasis on defending. Perhaps the current coaching team are too focused on getting players to feel comfortable with the ball at their feet, when the defenders need to be getting together and defending en-bloc. And I don't know how many times I keep banging on about someone (anyone) taking charge of the defense and telling the others where to be, and what to do, but every year County seem to put out a defence that is mute. There needs to be clarity as to what individual in the defence should be doing and responsibility for when they don't do it. Lets see a return to 'basic' defending and if that means not trying to play the ball out from the back, then so be it.

But lets not just lay the defeat at the door of a defence. County had little attacking intent on Saturday, mainly because they were pinned back in their own half. As I said before Port Vale knew how County were going to line up (5-3-2) and had devised a plan to counter it. And County didn't change their tactics to try to regain some sort of control of the game. When McLoughlin went off, they could have tried a 4-4-2 formation, bringing on a midfielder instead and trying to play further up the pitch. If nothing else it would have disrupted Port Vale for awhile. I was expecting changes at half-time, again possibly either bringing on a midfielder or even pushing Brennan into a defensive midfielder role and switching to four at the back. That three starting midfielders at the moment seem too static, too defensive, little energy.

I felt sorry for Sanca. He's a very young player that's learning 'adult' football the hard way. Like all young players he will make mistakes and, as a defender, those mistakes can be highlighted with goals against. I'd like to see him tried as a left back (not wing back) where he can concentrate on his defending in a (slightly) less pressurised environment than CB, though that may not happen until the CB situation improves after the red card bans/Clarke injury ends.

To be clear I am not against County playing football and keeping possession. And playing out from the back is not necessarily a bad tactics. However in addition to my point which Wattsville points out about faffing about at the back I think that this is problematic against teams that press. For me before you can play out from the back you have to win the battle to control midfield.

My view is that good teams, play football and are exciting to watch. But whether it is Liverpool or Brazil in the 70s and 80s or France, Spain and Barcelona three decades later, they knew they had to mix it and win the war before playing the beautiful game.

I've said a few times on different sites, and I still stick by it, that this season is all about survival. Nothing more.
We are asking very young players with little or no league experience to play a style of football which is fraught with danger. Make no mistake, we will concede many goals this season as a result of conceding possession in our defensive third of the field. There can be no doubt about that and it will achieve nothing by pouring criticism on the younger players
I think that style of football has much to commend it at league 2 level although, being of a certain age, I find it extremely boring to watch.
We have our squad mostly on two year contracts and our judgement of that squad must be on next season, not this one.
So I would implore our supporters to cut this squad some slack and let them learn and develop this season without endless criticism that will do nothing other than stripping them of confidence.
For me, and I'm sure some will disagree, anything 22nd or better will do fine. If can't manage that we are surely up the creek without a paddle.
If we survive this season, and I think we will,
please, judge them on next season, not this one.

Tbh forest Amber I think we all mostly agree with that and hope that we achieve the safety we all crave. I like most, never express my discontent at the team when I attend games even when imo they behave badly to get sent off unnecessarily as last Saturday. Rather, I think we fear we are moving ( or attempting to ) the playing style too far and too fast for the skills at our disposal.

forest amber wrote:I've said a few times on different sites, and I still stick by it, that this season is all about survival. Nothing more.
We are asking very young players with little or no league experience to play a style of football which is fraught with danger. Make no mistake, we will concede many goals this season as a result of conceding possession in our defensive third of the field. There can be no doubt about that and it will achieve nothing by pouring criticism on the younger players
I think that style of football has much to commend it at league 2 level although, being of a certain age, I find it extremely boring to watch.
We have our squad mostly on two year contracts and our judgement of that squad must be on next season, not this one.
So I would implore our supporters to cut this squad some slack and let them learn and develop  this season without endless criticism that will do nothing other than stripping them of confidence.
For me, and I'm sure some will disagree, anything 22nd or better will do fine. If can't manage that we are surely up the creek without a paddle.
If we survive this season, and I think we will,
please, judge them on next season, not this one.

I agree generally with your post. My criticisms are structural. The best way to reduce goals conceded is to coach the team to defend better, not to add an additional defender and create more confusion about whom should be doing what and when. And while the team are adapting to a new style of play then it's probably better to keep things simple, so rather than fannying around with the ball at the back, get rid of it to someone in space (which involves players finding space to receive the ball) further up the field. If you don't have five players in defence, but four instead, then that allows for someone to be further forward finding space. And if you've lost the battle all over the pitch in the first half, make a positive change at half-time, rather than hope that things will improve through your half-time team talk. The third goal for Port Vale went in at 48 minutes, but County didn't make a change until the 64th minute, after Brennan had been sent off and County were 4-1 down. That is an unforgiveable mistake. At 3-1 a quick goal could change the game, at 4-1 and 10 men you're just trying to prevent a cricket score...

Two points here.

Firstly on this topic the criticism has been about tactics as opposed to any individual critiques.

Secondly supporters are entitled if they so wish to criticise players. Whilst I agree that this season is about avoiding the catastrophic, which the old regime would undoubtedly have overseen, getting stick for below par performance goes with the territory. Being a professional footballer has many perks. Nobody is forced to play football. If you choose to make a living as a professional footballer you have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.