wattsville_boy wrote: March 8th, 2024, 3:01 pm
CathedralCounty wrote: March 7th, 2024, 3:21 pm
Exile 1976 wrote: March 7th, 2024, 1:47 pm
CathedralCounty wrote: March 7th, 2024, 7:51 am
Exile 1976 wrote: March 7th, 2024, 7:31 am
CathedralCounty wrote: March 7th, 2024, 7:28 am
Exile 1976 wrote: March 6th, 2024, 10:38 pm
CathedralCounty wrote: March 6th, 2024, 8:00 am
Exile 1976 wrote: March 5th, 2024, 10:38 am
CathedralCounty wrote: March 5th, 2024, 7:29 am
I feel that is a proportionate if a little harsh sanction tbh - the person in question clearly has vulnerabilities - not an excuse but definitely a
context - I don't believe Bogle has been scarred for life by it and it was a rare and sad incident but it hasn't sparked a wave of racism across the Medway towns. Football and Bogle has far bigger issues to deal with than a regrettable but rare incidence of racism.
Gillingham had already been fined the month before this incident for their fans racist and sexist chanting in three separate matches the previous season.
I'm always quite cynical about reporting around these alleged/actual 'ist' chants at football grounds as the bar is set very low and the net cast very wide for what constitutes an 'ist' chant within football grounds - I'm not excusing or condoning
unambiguous 'ism' but we all know football fans are held to a far higher standard than any other community in any other setting.
Players and officials heard the ‘you black b’stard’ chants from their fans….. I’d say that constitutes an ‘ist’ chant, wouldn’t you?
Agreed that IS unambiguous if proven although I know from an incident [non incident] I witnessed someone misheard 'fat' for 'black' - almost amusing but did cause some embarrassment to both parties (neither of which were me).
It was bloody proven, they were fined for it. Jeeeeez
man.
I'm not arguing on an individual case frankly I don't care enough about silly chants at league 2 stadiums enough to do my research and online I routinely caveat my posts with 'alleged' or 'if proven' partly to cover myself partly to respect any parties involved.
I'm saying in the general football does not have a racism problem (as a football fan I find it an insult when people say or imply it does) and that any 'punishments' for alleged/probable/actual racism is disproportionate to the offence and context of the offence and the impact of that offence (more so than it would be in any other setting) - the reason we hear all about these [rare] incidents is because they are...
rare - there is racism in football but football is not racist (not saying you were saying that but that as an issue racism should probably be about 27th on the list of priorities for football - partly as we are in 2024 not 1974 and society has moved on).
I’m sure that for the black players that suffer racist chanting and online racist abuse that it certainly isn’t ’about 27th on the list of priorities for football’ which, quite frankly, is a ******* ridiculous thing to write.
In football as in life everyone has their own individual issues that will always be impactful for them at the time, but racism is not a big issue in UK football so we should not give it disproportionate attention - when it [unambiguous racism] happens I’ve no doubt it can be hurtful* but it doesn’t happen very often. In fact I'm sure the majority of ethnic minority players are far more concerned about many other things (contract length, injuries, new managers coming in, risk of dementia from heading the ball, job and earnings potential post football career, etc) than whether they will/have been racially abused – I also believe that ethnic minority players have the resilience to move on pretty quickly on the [rare] occasions one of them suffers racial abuse.
Online abuse is a whole different ball game and with bots and AI, etc it often doesn't even stem from the UK or even real people let alone a football fan - it happens to people from every race/age/gender/backgrounds so its not a football issue as much as it is an online abuse issue.
*although from direct experience of relatives most people shrug it off as being an isolated ignorant comment and move on – whenever it has happened to mrs cathedral for example her attitude is just ‘meh’ and she goes about her day (often finding it funny) everyone is different of course and perhaps professional footballers
are particularly fragile?
My guess that as a white, middle aged, heterosexual male you are an authority on all the 'isms' that society breeds through ignorance and intolerance.
Sometimes it's better not to pontificate on stuff you have no perception of, and just accept that we all could probably do better than we currently do...
I feel a lot of 'white, middle aged, [people]' overthink or overstate the level and impact of racism (and by extension in football) in the UK - rather than listening to what actual real life ethnic minority people have to say on the matter.
I've got a lot of immediate experience via a very mixed family so have, dare I say it, far more 'authority' and a great deal of perception around this or certainly more than many - the ethnic minority/ethnic minority origin/mixed race people around me (for it is the 'race' ism we were talking about here) don’t see racism as being an issue in the UK - not an existential or fundamental one anyway - their concerns are the same as white people – paying their bills, job security, health, the state of the UK, trains being late all the time, useless politicians, potholes, etc.
Also from observations of the world around me and listening to podcasts, interviews and talking to the [albeit relatively few] pro and semi pro black footballers I know - they don't talk about racism rather the issues I listed in previous post (i.e., those that concern white footballers too) - the last young black player I spoke to was more worried about scrabbling around for a contract having been let down by a dodgy agent.
That’s my and those around me(‘s) ‘lived experience’ – won’t be the same for everyone of course.
