Stan A. Einstein wrote: February 4th, 2024, 1:15 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: February 4th, 2024, 12:54 pm

Exile 1976 wrote: February 4th, 2024, 12:28 pm If a grown adult can’t watch an opposition player celebrate in front of them without throwing coins, bottles or whatever at them, then it’s they who have the problem.

Exactly, why take the fun out, what do have left without a bit fun?

Unless you don't go to enjoy it, and actually believe that football is a just an excuse to have a court case.........

Tell me. Who amongst us as young men in our late teens or early twenties didn't do something really stupid when provoked and in drink? We got away with it. Now spare a thought for those who didn't. The guy who got punched fell backwards and cracked his skull open. The lad who threw a punch to impress his mates and ended up.on a manslaughter charge.

Exile, on this one I think you're wrong. Bangit I enjoy going to football, I enjoy celebrating when County score. If you are so inadequate that your pleasure is merely in goading others get help.

There is no evidence that you enjoy going to football, the evidence shows that you simply wedge in your working background into every comment. Your background has nothing to do with the entertainment, or footballers who having been goaded, having fun at their expense.

Wrexham at home was County's biggest home attendance for 40 years. Boosted by selling tickets along with Eastleigh tickets, and creating even more demand. Wrexham sold out before anyone knew the 4th round FA Cup draw. Its called showbiz, its the excitement that we are selling, more than the actual product.

Seb Palmer-Holden gave the crowd precicely what it wanted, his expression of the joy we were feeling.

I'd prefer Seb to try and be the bigger man.

I suppose he's perhaps not quite there yet, being only 19.

Exile 1976 wrote: February 4th, 2024, 1:50 pm No problem that you think I’m wrong Brendan. I just think a player ‘giving it the big one’ to the oppo fans, ’(after they’ve no doubt been giving dogs abuse to players and oppo fans) 20 yards away, that any normal person would not feel the need to physically attack them. If they do, that really is their issue, not the problem of the player.

Absolutely no problem with disagreeing, as I say we all air our views and those that read them can make up their own minds.

Mind you I should add that if I can't convince you, surely finding Bangitinthenet agrees with you must give you pause for thought?

Stan A. Einstein wrote: February 4th, 2024, 3:09 pm

Exile 1976 wrote: February 4th, 2024, 1:50 pm No problem that you think I’m wrong Brendan. I just think a player ‘giving it the big one’ to the oppo fans, ’(after they’ve no doubt been giving dogs abuse to players and oppo fans) 20 yards away, that any normal person would not feel the need to physically attack them. If they do, that really is their issue, not the problem of the player.

Absolutely no problem with disagreeing, as I say we all air our views and those that read them can make up their own minds.

Mind you I should add that if I can't convince you, surely finding Bangitinthenet agrees with you must give you pause for thought?

No understanding of football and what drives people to watch is emotional involvement.

No understanding of why GC was ecstatic, fist pumping in front of the stand.

No understanding that football crowds are built on excitement, on slaying Dragons, on drama. Not the size of local population..............

When Kevin Ellison used to wind up the County fans (as indeed he probably did to every opposition crowd) it was part of the entertainment. Most normal people may react within limits to the 'provocation', only idiots take it too far.

Did you ever put forward the defence of idiocracy for those committing acts of hooliganism Stan?

wattsville_boy wrote: February 4th, 2024, 9:27 pm When Kevin Ellison used to wind up the County fans (as indeed he probably did to every opposition crowd) it was part of the entertainment. Most normal people may react within limits to the 'provocation', only idiots take it too far.

Did you ever put forward the defence of idiocracy for those committing acts of hooliganism Stan?

Being an idiot is not a defence. It is a mitigation. In terms it affects sentence not conviction. As indeed is provocation. Although provocation is a partial defence to murder and can reduce the charge to manslaughter.
But to answer the question you perhaps meant to ask, of course I pointed out that there is a difference between stupidly and malice. The police by the way categorize football supporters into three groups. Those who don't get involved, those who instigate violence and those who can get caught up in violence.
So tell me, as a young man in drink did you never do anything stupid.? Or am I an outlier on this one. Am I the only one who was very foolish as a young man?

Really interesting point and watching the EFL highlights it’s widespread. It feels like it’s something that’s massively increased and will take a player to be injured before it gets looked at (sadly).

People drinking and having fun watching football, is not a crime, no matter how much some need to make fun a crime.

Stan A. Einstein wrote: February 4th, 2024, 12:11 pm

Jonesy3 wrote: February 4th, 2024, 11:57 am

Stan A. Einstein wrote: February 4th, 2024, 11:29 am

UPTHEPORT wrote: February 4th, 2024, 11:18 am

Jonesy3 wrote: February 4th, 2024, 11:06 am

Stan A. Einstein wrote: February 4th, 2024, 10:44 am I've noticed that with our winning goals v Wrexham and Swindon, the County scorer has run behind the goal in front of opposition supporters.

I think players winding up opposition supporters when they score is incitement and is asking for trouble. What is more it lacks class. When we score by all means celebrate but in front of your own supporters only.

Seb on both occasions and I’ve bloody loved it both times, as did all the people around me in the Bisley. Perhaps we all lack class?

He's a brizzle lad they were giving him some as well

I bet. Great fun until some idiot with a few pints inside him throws a coin or some other missile. And someone gets hurt. Grow up lads.

Oh, don’t be such a puritan. The Swindon lad celebrated his goal in front of us. It didn’t turn us into lunatics.

If a drunk yob wants to chuck things at players, they’ll do it. Idiots don’t need provocation to be idiots.

I've both prosecuted and defended people charged with football related violence. There are a few hardcore thugs, but the majority were idiots who got wound up. Players should not incite fans, it does lead to incidents that otherwise would not have taken place. I know that. I've also seen young lads get a criminal records which can adversely impact on the rest of their lives.
I know I always say everyone's entitled to their opinion and freedom of speech is important. But part of that free speech is that we have to accept being challenged. I have sat with people who have been, or at least feel they have been provoked, crying as they looked forward to a couple of month banged up for a moments madness, take it from me, you don't know what you're on about.

I've posted about 'hooliganism' and proportional reactions to it (I don't for example agree with the current approach to and usage of 'football banning orders' for a silly chant but do agree with a robust approach to genuine thuggery even a barely competent police officer and/or steward knows the difference) - however we are where we are and fans are continually held to an incredibly high(er) standard and yet players can get away with almost anything, or certainly won't be arrested for over exuberance as fan might be - I can't see how an opposition players celebrating would excuse poor behavior BUT it is a context a delicate balance.

Bangitintrnet wrote: February 4th, 2024, 2:39 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote: February 4th, 2024, 1:15 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: February 4th, 2024, 12:54 pm

Exile 1976 wrote: February 4th, 2024, 12:28 pm If a grown adult can’t watch an opposition player celebrate in front of them without throwing coins, bottles or whatever at them, then it’s they who have the problem.

Exactly, why take the fun out, what do have left without a bit fun?

Unless you don't go to enjoy it, and actually believe that football is a just an excuse to have a court case.........

Tell me. Who amongst us as young men in our late teens or early twenties didn't do something really stupid when provoked and in drink? We got away with it. Now spare a thought for those who didn't. The guy who got punched fell backwards and cracked his skull open. The lad who threw a punch to impress his mates and ended up.on a manslaughter charge.

Exile, on this one I think you're wrong. Bangit I enjoy going to football, I enjoy celebrating when County score. If you are so inadequate that your pleasure is merely in goading others get help.

There is no evidence that you enjoy going to football, the evidence shows that you simply wedge in your working background into every comment. Your background has nothing to do with the entertainment, or footballers who having been goaded, having fun at their expense.

Wrexham at home was County's biggest home attendance for 40 years. Boosted by selling tickets along with Eastleigh tickets, and creating even more demand. Wrexham sold out before anyone knew the 4th round FA Cup draw. Its called showbiz, its the excitement that we are selling, more than the actual product.

Seb Palmer-Holden gave the crowd precicely what it wanted, his expression of the joy we were feeling.

Do you enjoy going to the football?

You just wedge in constant endorsements of the old trust boards actions into every post, whilst touching yourself over the Carlisle accounts.

Bangitintrnet wrote: February 5th, 2024, 8:19 am People drinking and having fun watching football, is not a crime, no matter how much some need to make fun a crime.

I agree with sentiment but whether we agree with it or not (see my other posts - genuine thuggery batter the fools, metaphorically at least, over exuberance overlook as, as you say a bit of fun) football fans are held to a higher legal and moral standard than fans of any other sport - I've seen behavior at rugby that would without doubt have led to arrest and a ban at football.

Its up to fans to take the moral high ground and not give the 'authorities' an excuse to besmirch us, that doesn't mean we can't have fun but does mean 'we' don't rush en masse towards Swindon fans (90% of whom just wanted to get the GWR back home) in the middle of a busy city and tie up several van loads of police for hours (albeit the police did seem determined to send the Swindon fans the worst route to the station?!) and scare people.

One way of avoiding an over-exuberant celebration is for the team restarting after conceding a goal to be allowed to do so after a much shorter time than currently happens. If the referee blows the restart whistle after maybe thirty seconds, the celebrating team would be back in their own half of the pitch so much quicker.

excessbee wrote: February 5th, 2024, 9:04 am One way of avoiding an over-exuberant celebration is for the team restarting after conceding a goal to be allowed to do so after a much shorter time than currently happens. If the referee blows the restart whistle after maybe thirty seconds, the celebrating team would be back in their own half of the pitch so much quicker.

With VAR plus something like that, you may as well cancel football. There'd be no enjoyment left in it at all.

At the moment, the referee cannot restart the game until the celebrating team are back in their own half. This takes control out of the referee's hands.

Re wind up merchants, there was no better exponent than Kevin Ellison yet many of us were very entertained by him.
One evening after he’d been on the winning team against us and wound up our fans to the utmost, I was walking out of the ground past the Morecambe coach. As a laugh I shouted his name into the open coach door. To my surprise, he came out and talked to me and a small group of fans for some time. It was very amusing and he was a very nice chap I thought. Modern football is the poorer I think for the lack of showmen. We do go to football to be entertained after all.