whoareya wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:I've maintained that wearing masks puts people into a false sense of security and you watch people they take masks off in their pockets bags etc and don't wash hands

Its drumed into us in NHS you wash hands before taking mask off and once mask is removed and putting on

I very rarely see anyone washing hands donning or doffin

Carry a bottle of sanitiser

Jim, I've worked for and in the NHS on several contracts over the years and have to say that, up until Covid getting out of control, hygiene standards amongst clinical staff was poor, would often see theatre staff wandering into canteens wearing their crocs and surgical greens.

Doesn't surprise me mate

But I'm talking coronavirus times

UPTHEPORT wrote:I've maintained that wearing masks puts people into a false sense of security and you watch people they take masks off in their pockets bags etc and don't wash hands

Its drumed into us in NHS you wash hands before taking mask off and once mask is removed and putting on

I very rarely see anyone washing hands donning or doffin

Carry a bottle of sanitiser

You forgot throwing them on the floor after shopping etc.
Biggest litter problem now blue masks.

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:I've maintained that wearing masks puts people into a false sense of security and you watch people they take masks off in their pockets bags etc and don't wash hands

Its drumed into us in NHS you wash hands before taking mask off and once mask is removed and putting on

I very rarely see anyone washing hands donning or doffin

Carry a bottle of sanitiser

You forgot throwing them on the floor after shopping etc.
Biggest litter problem now blue masks.

Not often I agree with you but true
People don't give a ****

Just had Jeremy vine show on a good point was made that its mostly labour held seats under lockdown but tory seats in South with similar figures are not been put into lockdown

Strange that

Got to give a big shout out to British Red Cross and St John's both working incredibly hard in the Gwent and all volunteers the one chap that volunteers in A&E hes done it for years even during the hight of the pandemic he's put his life on the line to help patients

These are the one's that should be getting the obe's etc not some bloke doing exercise videos

News this morning that there has been an outbreak of COVID at the RGH. 14 patients are ill with the virus there according to the news report. Hope it doesn’t get worse. Stay safe all.

pembsexile wrote:News this morning that there has been an outbreak of COVID at the RGH. 14 patients are ill with the virus there according to the news report. Hope it doesn’t get worse. Stay safe all.

Morning Mike,

Sadly it is about to get a lot worse. If I seem obsessed with this it is not about winning an argument. If this illness can break out in a hospital where I'm sure there are sanitizers, PPE, social distancing and a ban on alcohol then there is no chance of even limited crowds at football matches not having the same affect.

And a lot of people, including some who read this board are going to die as a result. And whilst all that we can do is mitigate risk at least some lives will be saved and some misery averted. Unfortunately there are those who will cling on to views expressed by rogue doctors in American right wing think tanks. Who because such irresponsible zealots as the Barrington Group publish non peer reviewed half baked ideas, think that somehow the laws of virus transmission can be magically wished away.

They can't. And as the UK's deputy chief medical officer has pointed out you can't have a wee free lane in a swimming pool, that we can protect the vulnerable alone is wishful thinking.

For me, I have always believed that season 20/21 should be written off. Draconian but it will save lives. When they virus first arrived, like many I thought government would over hype it. See my first post on this thread. I was wrong. When facts demonstrate I am wrong I change my mind. I hope others can do the same.

UPTHEPORT wrote:I've maintained that wearing masks puts people into a false sense of security..........

Again I have to disagree. The same argument was used about the mandatory wearing of seatbelts.

Unfortunately the BBC and Sky are always preoccupied by reporting negative for the majority of the time.
Whilst I agree with the serious nature of The Vid. It annoys me with all the perpetual moaning when lockdowns and limitations are applied.
I can remember when pubs used to close in Cardiff at 10:30, Newport 11:00.
Pubs shut at 10:00 on a Sunday and used to shut for 2 hours in the afternoon.
Not to mention when shops and bookies were closed on a Sunday along with 1/2 closing midweek.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

pembsexile wrote:News this morning that there has been an outbreak of COVID at the RGH. 14 patients are ill with the virus there according to the news report. Hope it doesn’t get worse. Stay safe all.

Morning Mike,

Sadly it is about to get a lot worse. If I seem obsessed with this it is not about winning an argument. If this illness can break out in a hospital where I'm sure there are sanitizers, PPE, social distancing and a ban on alcohol then there is no chance of even limited crowds at football matches not having the same affect.

And a lot of people, including some who read this board are going to die as a result. And whilst all that we can do is mitigate risk at least some lives will be saved and some misery averted. Unfortunately there are those who will cling on to views expressed by rogue doctors in American right wing think tanks. Who because such irresponsible zealots as the Barrington Group publish non peer reviewed half baked ideas, think that somehow the laws of virus transmission can be magically wished away.

They can't. And as the UK's deputy chief medical officer has pointed out you can't have a wee free lane in a swimming pool, that we can protect the vulnerable alone is wishful thinking.

For me, I have always believed that season 20/21 should be written off. Draconian but it will save lives. When they virus first arrived, like many I thought government would over hype it. See my first post on this thread. I was wrong. When facts demonstrate I am wrong I change my mind. I hope others can do the same.

A good friend of mine went into hospital in March for a routine operation. She caught Covid whilst in hospital and sadly passed away.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:I've maintained that wearing masks puts people into a false sense of security..........

Again I have to disagree. The same argument was used about the mandatory wearing of seatbelts.

Can only speak of my own experiences, but I have definitely observed people ignoring social distancing more in shops since face coverings have become mandatory.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

pembsexile wrote:News this morning that there has been an outbreak of COVID at the RGH. 14 patients are ill with the virus there according to the news report. Hope it doesn’t get worse. Stay safe all.

Morning Mike,

Sadly it is about to get a lot worse. If I seem obsessed with this it is not about winning an argument. If this illness can break out in a hospital where I'm sure there are sanitizers, PPE, social distancing and a ban on alcohol then there is no chance of even limited crowds at football matches not having the same affect.

And a lot of people, including some who read this board are going to die as a result. And whilst all that we can do is mitigate risk at least some lives will be saved and some misery averted. Unfortunately there are those who will cling on to views expressed by rogue doctors in American right wing think tanks. Who because such irresponsible zealots as the Barrington Group publish non peer reviewed half baked ideas, think that somehow the laws of virus transmission can be magically wished away.

They can't. And as the UK's deputy chief medical officer has pointed out you can't have a wee free lane in a swimming pool, that we can protect the vulnerable alone is wishful thinking.

For me, I have always believed that season 20/21 should be written off. Draconian but it will save lives. When they virus first arrived, like many I thought government would over hype it. See my first post on this thread. I was wrong. When facts demonstrate I am wrong I change my mind. I hope others can do the same.

Morning Brendan,

I am sure you will appreciate that I have my own views on this. I am capable of making my own decisions and I am sure that others can as well.

Please understand that I have no interest in US right wing think tanks. I have not read the writings of the Barrington Group so I can hardly cling to their views. You keep on giving extreme examples to underline your point. There is no need.

I have to deal with the effects of COVID every day, not as much as others in the direct line, but still deal with it nonetheless.

The way things are going with this virus any idea any one of us may have with regards to sporting events will probably be taken out of our hands anyway.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... XCXCZywdoI

4% death rate where there is an out come. Just digest that and apply it to 60-70 % of the world's population. 60-70% is when herd immunity kicks in. So a herd immunity strategy would directly kill in excess of 170 million, and more, because hospitals would be over-run, etc etc etc.

Morning Mike,

Of course you are entitled to your view and to express it. If I have ever given the impression that is not the case forgive me.

However the nature of debate is that where we disagree with other we endeavour to change their minds with argument and remain open to having our minds changed.

We agree that there is a virus loose throughout the world which is killing people. We agree that a total lockdown of society is at one end of a spectrum of response and that doing nothing and letting people die without intervention is at the other. We agree that neither extreme is desirable. Where we disagree is on a specific. You believe people should in some circumstances should be allowed to attend football matches I don't.

Let me therefore put the, hopefully not extreme, arguments to back my argument.

Firstly small crowds were allowed at GAA games in Ireland. That has now been stopped as the evidence suggested that this was contributing to the rise in the number of cases.

Secondly on 21 September SAGE in the UK advised that in order to stem the rise in infection rates tighter restrictions were necessary. Boris Johnson's government chose to ignore this advice.

On the 21 September 19 people died within 28 days of testing positive for Covid19. Yesterday 133 people died.

It is on that factual basis that I believe that easing restrictions would be irresponsible. Indeed I believe leaving things as they are now is grossly irresponsible.

As I said if you look at my first post here, I was pretty much agreeing with your analysis. However in my view the arguments put by others seem to be backed up by the facts. And when that happens I change my mind. I remain open to any arguments to change my mind back. But at the moment I don't see any.

The post above was a directvreply to Pemb's post. But more generally I really would appreciate anyone who disagrees with me, countering this simple argument.

To allow people to attend sporting events would be an easing of restrictions regarding the spread of Covid19. At the moment the number of deaths is rising at an alarming rate. It therefore seems to me that restrictions need to be increased not decreased.

Now I accept that outdoor events do not pose as high a risk of passing on the infection as do indoor events. However I know that petrol is a faster accellerant of fire than is paraffin. Nonetheless if my house were burning down I wouldn't consider trying to douse the flames with paraffin a particularly sensible thing to do.

So gentlemen and ladies, if anyone disagrees and with me I am more than willing to listen. After all I am having to agree with Colin and GSB and disagree with Jim and Mike.