Coxy wrote:4 million wouldn't be enough sadly. Wasn't spytty just over 3 million before it was improved ? We probably need to be looking at more like 10-12 million.

It would absolutely be enough as a down-payment if the rest was mortgage debt, surely?

Interest rates have never been so low; now is the opportunity of a lifetime to borrow money to secure your future.

Debt is seen as some dirty word in society for some reason, but it's a ubiquitous fact of life. If it's managed appropriately, debt is a very potent investment tool.

If a company turning over £2.25m a year can't manage £6m worth of debt at today's interest rates, then something is going seriously wrong. You could inflate half of it away if the current status quo persists.

ref23 wrote:

Coxy wrote:4 million wouldn't be enough sadly. Wasn't spytty just over 3 million before it was improved ? We probably need to be looking at more like 10-12 million.

It would absolutely be enough as a down-payment if the rest was mortgage debt, surely?

Interest rates have never been so low; now is the opportunity of a lifetime to borrow money to secure your future.

Debt is seen as some dirty word in society for some reason, but it's a ubiquitous fact of life. If it's managed appropriately, debt is a very potent investment tool.

If a company turning over £2.25m a year can't manage £6m worth of debt at today's interest rates, then something is going seriously wrong. You could inflate half of it away if the current status quo persists.

Hi. how much are interest rates on a 6m business loan? if it is around 6% then that would be a third of our playing budget just on servicing interest on a loan.

Jimmy Exile wrote:

ref23 wrote:

Coxy wrote:4 million wouldn't be enough sadly. Wasn't spytty just over 3 million before it was improved ? We probably need to be looking at more like 10-12 million.

It would absolutely be enough as a down-payment if the rest was mortgage debt, surely?

Interest rates have never been so low; now is the opportunity of a lifetime to borrow money to secure your future.

Debt is seen as some dirty word in society for some reason, but it's a ubiquitous fact of life. If it's managed appropriately, debt is a very potent investment tool.

If a company turning over £2.25m a year can't manage £6m worth of debt at today's interest rates, then something is going seriously wrong. You could inflate half of it away if the current status quo persists.

Hi. how much are interest rates on a 6m business loan? if it is around 6% then that would be a third of our playing budget just on servicing interest on a loan.

I guess it would depend upon a range of things - security, term, creditworthiness, etc.

It just strikes me as eminently possible to achieve if you can come up with a £4m down-payment.

Newportonian wrote:A loose rule of thumb uses to be 1m per 1k seats

An oft' quoted figure. I have to say £1,000 to fit each seat seems somewhat on the steep side. A square metre of concrete even more so.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Newportonian wrote:A loose rule of thumb uses to be 1m per 1k seats

An oft' quoted figure. I have to say £1,000 to fit each seat seems somewhat on the steep side. A square metre of concrete even more so.

Obviously it includes all construction costs averaged out over the number of seats.......but I'm sure you know that.

newgroundrodney wrote:
Obviously it includes all construction costs averaged out over the number of seats.......but I'm sure you know that.

I do.

However the unit cost comes down with economies of scale. That is the cost of 100 plastic bucket seats will be less than 100 x's the cost of one. The same applies to installation. Figures tend to be bandied about but the provenance of those figures tends to be a mystery.

Edit.
To be clear I don't know what the cost is. However is the figure quoted accurate or is it a convenient plucked out of the air figure which we just seem to accept?

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:
Obviously it includes all construction costs averaged out over the number of seats.......but I'm sure you know that.

I do.

However the unit cost comes down with economies of scale. That is the cost of 100 plastic bucket seats will be less than 100 x's the cost of one. The same applies to installation. Figures tend to be bandied about but the provenance of those figures tends to be a mystery.

Edit.
To be clear I don't know what the cost is. However is the figure quoted accurate or is it a convenient plucked out of the air figure which we just seem to accept?

I guess the final price depends on the quality of the finish, decor if included, etc.

ref23 wrote:

Coxy wrote:4 million wouldn't be enough sadly. Wasn't spytty just over 3 million before it was improved ? We probably need to be looking at more like 10-12 million.

It would absolutely be enough as a down-payment if the rest was mortgage debt, surely?

Interest rates have never been so low; now is the opportunity of a lifetime to borrow money to secure your future.

Debt is seen as some dirty word in society for some reason, but it's a ubiquitous fact of life. If it's managed appropriately, debt is a very potent investment tool.

If a company turning over £2.25m a year can't manage £6m worth of debt at today's interest rates, then something is going seriously wrong. You could inflate half of it away if the current status quo persists.

There's at least two separate generations who have been manipulated by the press to believe in the idea of debt being a dirty word. The only exception to it is people 'getting on the ladder', however its interesting that football grounds, with 365 day a year earning potential don't seem to fall into most peoples idea of 'the ladder'.

The £1k per seat figure has been the received wisdom for at least 10 years, maybe more. Inflation must surely have pushed it up.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:
Obviously it includes all construction costs averaged out over the number of seats.......but I'm sure you know that.

I do.

However the unit cost comes down with economies of scale. That is the cost of 100 plastic bucket seats will be less than 100 x's the cost of one. The same applies to installation. Figures tend to be bandied about but the provenance of those figures tends to be a mystery.

Edit.
To be clear I don't know what the cost is. However is the figure quoted accurate or is it a convenient plucked out of the air figure which we just seem to accept?

Surely the figure would be based upon the cost of constructing new stadia elsewhere.

newgroundrodney wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:
Obviously it includes all construction costs averaged out over the number of seats.......but I'm sure you know that.

I do.

However the unit cost comes down with economies of scale. That is the cost of 100 plastic bucket seats will be less than 100 x's the cost of one. The same applies to installation. Figures tend to be bandied about but the provenance of those figures tends to be a mystery.

Edit.
To be clear I don't know what the cost is. However is the figure quoted accurate or is it a convenient plucked out of the air figure which we just seem to accept?

I guess the final price depends on the quality of the finish, decor if included, etc.

That must be right. I am quite sure you could spend any amount you wished. The Bisley stand holds 2,600 people. That would equate to a cost of £2,600,000. Add to that the hospitality boxes and the TV gallery, the bars underneath and you're not showing much change from £4,000,000. Remind me, how much was the entire Rodney Parade stadium and land sold for again?

The Bisley Stand cost just short of £5m to build.
The WRU paid £2.85m for the entire site - exclusive of £900k they were owed anyway.
However, Tony Brown & Martyn Hazell wrote off loans of £4.5m they were owed for the building of the Bisley.

Some number of yrs ago, I remember seeing an artist's impression of a newbuild stadium for Newport County. Pictures were online for a while the disappeared.

newgroundrodney wrote:Some number of yrs ago, I remember seeing an artist's impression of a newbuild stadium for Newport County. Pictures were online for a while the disappeared.

Newport has a habit of having plans that are pared down. Friars Walk, Rodney Parade.

I was interested in Kevin's post. I have no doubt his figures are correct. The Liberty Stadium in Swansea cost £27,000,000 in total. How Swansea got over twice as much bang for their buck pro rata is anyone's guess.

Edit.

The Emirates at over 60,000 cost £39,000,000. Even allowing for higher London costs. Even with inflation far less than £1,000 per seat.

Thank you Kevin Ward for some clarity, exactly why you got mine (and many others) vote onto the board.
Interesting reading.

For me two things, the City (and us, being County, but less so as we were skint) missed a golden opportunity to have our own ground for our own city bang in the centre of town for a snip (once the cabbage patch is sold it would of nearly paid for itself and the city would have safeguarded a sporting legacy for life for a steal) - btw, the WRU are doing a grand job, but the City missed a golden chance (as usual).


Seconldy, I for one would HATE some plastic new stadium, it would ruin it all, most teams who have one bemoan the fact, it's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I would much rather see, covered ends at Rodney and a continuation of the Hazell standon to the Hazell Terrace. With things like the Loos and Bars brought into the 21st Century, and leave the rest exactly as she is, making a traditional 10k ish stadium, with atmosphere and a unique selling point bang in the middle of town.

But that's my opinion.!! UTC